Thursday, 19 March 2015

Kickstarter Bonus Prints #30 & 31 Revealed!

Bonus Print #30:
The Last Signing

Bonus Print #31:
Cerebus '93

All the 'First Release' Bonus Prints For Cerebus Archive Number Three are:

About The Kickstarter Bonus Prints:
The Bonus Prints are ONLY available as an "ADD-ON" to a portfolio pledge for an additional CAD $9 per bonus print. The above 'First Release' prints are now available as Kickstarter pledge rewards for Cerebus Archive Number Three together with the 'Second Release' bonus prints #1-21 from Cerebus Archive Number Two. Once the total pledge amount has passed the $34,000 mark, you may add 15 Bonus Prints from the First Release and/or Second Release BP lists. If total pledges exceed the total raised from the previous Kickstarter campaign (CAD $42,028) all 31 bonus prints will become available.

18 comments:

Anonymous said...

Regarding BP 26: I don't think it is ethical to sell as bonus prints for a Cerebus kickstarter a cover done for somebody else's comic, featuring somebody else's characters.

-- Damian T. Lloyd, hug

Tony Dunlop said...

Oh great, kick a man when he's down. Sheesh.

Jeff Seiler said...

Damian, I'd be careful about stirring hornets' nests right now, if I were you.

My guess is that Dave has the rights to the art, in B&W. Note that the print is not colourized.

IDW can object if they want, but they certainly don't need you as their legal representative.

A Moment Of Cerebus said...

FYI - Joe Hill (the author of Locke & Key) seems fine with it as he tweeted about the CAN3 bonus print here:
https://twitter.com/joe_hill/status/574213804797616128

Anonymous said...

Thank you for your warning, Jeff; you can be sure I will give it all the consideration it deserves. Sheesh! Your bromance is your own business, but your knee-jerk defence of anything your hero does is no credit to either you or him. Dave is a human being, capable of mistakes -- as he himself has admitted he's already made with these bonus prints.

Tony (and anyone else who feels similarly), I am not intending to "kick a man when he's down". I have already chimed in to wish Dave a speedy recovery, and let me repeat now that I hope he is up and functioning ailment-free as soon as possible. I am quite sure that all of us here hope that both his bowels and his wrist gets better.

This AMOC post has nothing to with Dave's health, and this matter has nothing to do with Dave's health or any challenge he faces other than funding the restoration and preservation of Cerebus, which is the stated purpose of these Kickstarter campaigns.

Jeff, why would you think I was offering legal advice when I said "ethical"? Although your comment suggests that you are not clear on copyright law, I admit that I don't know the details of Dave's agreement with Joe Hill, Gabriel Rodriguez, or IDW.

There is no dispute that Dave owns the physical artwork for this cover. If he wants to sell said artwork to fund the Cerebus preservation, that is above-board both legally and ethically. However, I am not certain that he has the legal right to offer prints of this work as an economic incentive to fund Cerebus. Even if he does, I don't think he has the ethical right to do so; lots of things are legal and still unethical.

That is my sole point here, and remains valid regardless of whether Dave is well or ill, alive or dead. You may question my timing, but it was not I who chose to offer this print and post about it now.

-- Damian T. Lloyd, ail

Jeff Seiler said...

Nor was it Dave who chose to "post about it now", Damian. Tim, doing his job, posted it today, as promised.

Believe it or not, I may be one of Dave's worst critics. I have said for years that I think he should stop working so much (the man IS a workaholic), and that he should eat more and fast less often. And get out more. I thought one of his best periods was when he was attending weekly city council meetings, well, weekly.

BUT.

I respect his choices and will defend to the death his right to make them.

I am not a sycophant. Rather, I am a friend. If you doubt my loyalty to friends, just ask Tundis.

You, Damian, are just someone who damns with faint praise.

Anonymous said...

Jeff, please read what I say and reply to my arguments, not the straw men you make up in your own head. I did not state, nor did I imply, that Dave made the post we're replying to. It states right at the top of this blog that Dave has no control over the content here, apart from his own posts.

Dave did set the timing of the Kickstarter campaign, and it is this ongoing event to which I address myself. If the campaign continues, it is a fair subject for comment. Dave's illness is indeed rerettable, but not relevant to this narrow topic.

Your love for Dave is obvious. (I don't mean you're gay for Dave. I don't have a problem with that, although he would. I just wish to close off that objection). But it manifests itself in an adolescent manner: It's not enough that you love Dave and Cerebus, but everyone else has to as well, and in the same manner and with the same fervour as you do yourself. I too will defend to the death Dave's right to make the choices he makes. That's a separate matter from respecting those choices themselves; sometimes I think he's wrong. You demand that I do both.

You have said repeatedly that I damn Dave with faint praise. This is a false statement. I ranked Dave's dialogue as superior to that of other comics. I complimented his skill at caricature. I said his pacing and composition are second to none. I called Dave the living cartoonist most in command of his medium. I said on several occasions that Cerebus contains some of the best cartooning I have ever seen. This is not faint praise; this is unequivocal praise.

But you don't engage with my arguments. You call me names and make minor threats.

I have a larger point -- and I'm sorry this has been picking on you personally, Jeff; I don't really have a beef with you as an individual. But you and Reginald P. and Michael Battaglia and a couple of others are part of the problem when it comes to Cerebus being discussed seriously as a creative work. There's an attitude that permits no criticism of your hero. Anything other than praise and supplication is off-limits, illegitimate, or on-the-face-of-it wrong.

A while ago on this blog, I critiques Dave's drawing ability (with examples), and contrasted how it didn't matter in Cerebus but did in Strange Death. Reg P. whined that I hurt his feelings, and Eddie Khana made fun of me (though if I can't take a bit of teasing, I have no business going out in public -- and Eddie, it was pretty funny). Neither of them addressed my argument. Later, Dave made the same points about deficiencies in his drawing ability.

(Who was that guy who got his panties in a bunch because Scott McCloud praised Dave for his lettering in a discussion of how lettering contributes to a comics page?)

If the Simcophants defend Dave and Cerebus against all comers, when they fade away so will Cerebus. Only vigourous critical discourse will keep the work alive.

Jeff, I fear that we may be bordering on something I hate: a fight in the comments section of somebody else's blog. If you wish to discuss this particular matter further, perhaps we can take it offline; please feel free to email me at Damian.Lloyd@Gmail.com.

Thank you all for your patience.

-- Damian T. Lloyd, sts

Jeff Seiler said...

Damian, I will fight no further with you.

With you, it's talk and talk and talk, but always thinly veiled snark.

Your timing, as Tony pointed out was what got my panties in a wad, today anyway.

I may, someday, email you, but I'm done now.

BTW, I'm sure Dave very much appreciates your wishing him well, with a speedy recovery. But, that's not me speaking on his behalf.

Best wishes to you, as well, Damian, from me.

Anonymous said...

I'm going to request of Tim that Damian be banned from this site.

This is a Dave Sim FAN site. I come here because I ADMIRE the work of Dave Sim. I am a FAN. I enjoy reading the comments of others that are fans of Dave Sim. I want to support him and make sure that he is doing okay, in my way.

It is ridiculous that someone keeps coming on this site and mocking someone that is a FAN of Dave Sim. Jeff Seiler is here because that is exactly what this site is for.

Being a fan doesn't mean agreeing with Dave's opinions or thinking everything he has done is great.

But I don't think it makes sense to come on here repeatedly and say ill-informed and obviously ridiculous things in an attempt to provoke a response from fans of Dave Sim.

It would be a vast improvement in this space if he were banned.

It is also clear that Damian does not support the kickstarter campaigns or the Patreon site, as I and many others here do.

As for what Damian has said about the use of Locke and Key cover, it is beyond the pale to stick a finger in a guy's eye when he is facing adversity.

So it would make my day if he were banned. In fact, I would be willing to donate an additional $20 to Patreon to get the job done.

- Reginald P.

Steve said...

Ah, the sweet sound of civilized dialogue.

Sandeep Atwal said...

Anyway....

I saw Dave today, he's doing very well. He won't be getting out tomorrow, but everything is going well. He's up and about and doing fine. They removed the epidural and convinced him to take two(!) Tylenols. Of course, because he's Dave Sim, we ended up talking about work and the future of how to run things at Aardvark-Vanaheim in light of recent events. (It's almost as though he's got something inside him that is just constantly saying, "Get back to WORK!!) Needless to say, Dave has LOTS of ideas! But he's probably going to just take a look at his own responsibilities to that which absolutely must be done by him and him alone and delegate a little bit more. Sounds like a good idea to me. So, things are looking good, I'll keep you posted.

Scott Yoshinaga said...

Thanks for the update Sandeep! Great to hear that he's in good spirits!

A Moment Of Cerebus said...

Just to clarify....

Everyone is welcome to read and join in at AMOC. Just stick to the 'comments policy' stated on the 'About' page, and we'll all get along just fine.

Actually, I thought Daimian's original point was quite interesting, ie should Dave be offering prints of artwork originally commissioned for another purpose?

I'm too lazy to find the original quote, but I'm fairly sure that Dave's view is that if you worked on a piece of artwork, then you have the right to reproduce it (although I think he was originally referring to art produced in collaboration with others). Building on that concept, if Dave is paid for a specially commissioned piece of art does He have the ethical right to reproduce it and offer it for sale as a print? As long as he took a scan of the original artwork before handing it over, I''d say yes, absolutely. Dave created the art and can/should be able to reproduce it (assuming the 'right to reproduce' wasn't specifically sold).

Maybe Daiman is questioning whether 'Locke & Key' is appropriate for a Cerebus Kickstarter? Again, I'd vote yes, because I'm interest in all Dave Sim / Gerhard art, but maybe that's just me.

What do you think?

mike r said...

I feel Damian has a freedom to write what he believes is true even though it may ruffle a few feathers. ... and if Tim deems anything unsuitable, he deletes it.

Hasn't Dave written stuff in the past that he believes he has been ostracized? Hopefully THIS hasn't offended anyone.

Not only do I continue to wish Dave a speedy recovery, but I wish everyone well.

Michael Ragiel

Tony Dunlop said...

1. Thanks to Sandeep, Jeff, and everyone else who has been tending to our favorite ailing cartoonist/pariah (JOKE!!!).

2. Damian, while a curmudgeon and gadfly wannabe, does have some valid points once in a while and I'd be sorry to see him stop posting here.

3. I do think there are potential ethical issues with offering for sale artwork involving copyrights held by others. It's my understanding that Dave's preference has always been to do things with a handshake and keep the lawyers out of it, and I'd be VERY surprised if he doesn't have this sort of agreement with the creator(s?) of Locke and Key.

Eddie said...

Well Ger sells prints of his cover for the Little Nemo book (gotta save up money for that one!) and the HS cover and Following Cerebus cover, and I think other artists have been selling prints of characters owned by others that theyve worked on for years, like BWS Ram and the Peacock with the Marvel version of Conan, Neal Adams, etc. I think a lot of this was discussed a few years ago (particularly by Steve Bissette IIRC) with the Gary Friedrich Ghost Rider case where Marvel landed on him with all their legal might, preventing him from selling such items, but I don't know that much about it.

Tony again said...

Well sure, everyone knows Marvel are a bunch of weasel dirtbag scum sucking poopyheads.

Eddie said...

Nah man. Tom B tweets artwork that Dave has done, and they had him do the Spider Ham varient