tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2837001751311078781.post356458544009594035..comments2024-03-28T21:17:45.398-05:00Comments on A MOMENT OF CEREBUS: Cerebus Restoration Milestones- Second BirthdaysA Moment Of Cerebushttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02718525538144698138noreply@blogger.comBlogger34125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2837001751311078781.post-33584948108492484692016-07-05T21:50:52.510-05:002016-07-05T21:50:52.510-05:00Oy Vey. If you can publish a full color hardcover ...Oy Vey. If you can publish a full color hardcover 176 page book ( i try not to make people feel bad about publishing in black and white ;) ) for 24.95. You can publish a 500 page black and white hardcover for 5 times that amount. I have a 350 page King Aroo book with a full color hardcover with foil embossed logo that retailed for 40 bucks. <br /><br />I mean, I get it. It's big! I just love Cerebus and want to see it succeed in as many venues as possible. I can only imagine the amount of library systems (not library BRANCHES but library SYSTEMS that won't touch Cerebus because of the old bindings. The new ones are a vast improvement. <br /><br />If you don't want to do it or don't want to explore it, that's totally fine. I have purchased the whole series about three times over. Why? Because it's the best.Jimmy Gownleyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09569275097672894056noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2837001751311078781.post-83924335828219365932016-07-05T19:01:54.443-05:002016-07-05T19:01:54.443-05:00@Dave
(From my response to your response to Sean&...@Dave<br /><br />(From my response to your response to Sean's post)<br /><br />Obviously, this isn't an exact comparison, but Marvel and DC frequently publish HC's well in excess of 500 or 1000 pages for under a hundred bucks retail. They're not alone though.<br /><br />I'm sure large print runs lower the cost, however...<br /><br />...I'm holding in my hands a HC book you wrote the intro for (The Puma Blues) that weighs in at 560 pages (with a dustjacket) that will set you back just 20-bucks on Amazon.<br /><br />In no way am I knowledgeable (nor would I claim to be) in publishing costs, but if a lesser-known title (no offense to Murphy and Zulli intended) with a low print run can put out a nice-looking HC for well under a 100 greenbacks, maybe there are some options out there that haven't been fully explored yet?<br /><br />Maybe? <br /><br />No one expects to pay 20 for C & S, but 3, 4, 5 or more times the cost of The Puma Blues HC? Not...a...problem. al roneynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2837001751311078781.post-22552027532626587992016-07-05T18:17:21.913-05:002016-07-05T18:17:21.913-05:00What you guys aren't taking into account is th...What you guys aren't taking into account is that these are 500 page books and 600 page books. If they were 170 page books, then you would be talking -- MAYBE -- about $100 editions. Proportionately, all of the costs are huge. If it doesn't equate to $300 per book, it's much closer to that than "Oh heck -- 100 page book 500 page book. What's the difference?" That doesn't even begin to address the size of the books now that Sean is getting the paper that he wanted which has effectively doubled the size of CHURCH & STATE I. Or what it costs to ship or get specially made boxes for them. At $100 for a 500-page book I can pretty much guarantee we would be losing money. <br /><br />I try not to make anyone feel bad about doing 150-page graphic novels -- it's quite an achievement -- but the idea that there isn't a significant difference between 150 pages and 500 pages is just delusional. <br /><br />Especially when you start talking about adding 100 pages to the CEREBUS volume. You're ADDING the same number of pages that the average graphic novel CONSISTS of. That doesn't cause the expenses to EXPAND, it causes them to MUSHROOM. <br /><br />Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06502294606395720342noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2837001751311078781.post-66365412594660480882016-07-04T06:42:14.515-05:002016-07-04T06:42:14.515-05:00What Happened..: between 20/21 really should NOT b...What Happened..: between 20/21 really should NOT be included in Book One. It doesn't make any sense until you've already read Book Two, and if shown before then it becomes a spoiler. I think it ought to be saved for the Miscellany volume.<br /><br />Likewise 'Ef Guest,' which deserves to be reprinted, but is stylistically out of place when it was published.<br /><br />My fantasy would be to see Dave finish the cleanup of the dragon story and ink the wrestler story, but that's clearly not going to happen now. :( Unless Gerhard could be talked into doing it.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2837001751311078781.post-2031640099963325622016-07-01T18:27:09.696-05:002016-07-01T18:27:09.696-05:00Tony -
There are fans like myself who want the co...<br />Tony -<br /><br />There are fans like myself who want the covers, the editorials, the letters; the whole enchilada!<br /><br />So, there is a trade-off in that the remastered art is splendid, but it's (for us whole enchilada fans) half the story, and binding the issues gives us all of it - plus whatever we wish to add.<br /><br />But partly too what I'm expressing is this: if no HC volumes come from A-V via Kickstarter or whatever, that doesn't mean you can't have a HC volume.<br /><br />It just means you've got to find a decent bindery and have the project done for yourself.<br /><br />The vast majority of comics suffer absolutely no loss when all that's presented in 'graphic novel' reprints is the art pages.<br /><br />But I would argue that several titles (Usagi Yojimbo, Bone, Strangers In Paradise - just to name a handy few) have such a personal, creator touch in the 'back matter' that is completely lost to the reprint-only reader.<br /><br />Steve<br />Stevehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06324364972414451992noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2837001751311078781.post-62406044206980627142016-06-30T21:49:47.225-05:002016-06-30T21:49:47.225-05:00But then I no longer have stand-alone issues; plus...But then I no longer have stand-alone issues; plus, now that Sean's amazing restoration work is available, why would I want a hardcover edition of anything else?Tony againnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2837001751311078781.post-47268627953343420852016-06-30T21:34:58.885-05:002016-06-30T21:34:58.885-05:00Oh, I forgot:
The Cerebus warehouse issues - ther...Oh, I forgot:<br /><br />The Cerebus warehouse issues - there's full runs or near full runs of many of the phonebooks right there.<br /><br />You want your hardcovers? Get up there for your free issues!<br /><br />Or ship them to me, I'll get them bound, and we'll work out some method of adding value for the fans and making eBay auctions a viable option.<br /><br />SteveStevehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06324364972414451992noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2837001751311078781.post-38638373443450029372016-06-30T21:31:25.877-05:002016-06-30T21:31:25.877-05:00As concerns hardcover volumes, please meander over...<br />As concerns hardcover volumes, please meander over to Gerhard's blog for April 2016 and take a look at the stack of custom bound hardcovers.<br /><br />This is a set I had bound locally for Corey. Issues #1-25 are the bi-weekly reprints, everything else was original issues. Interwoven with the reprints I placed these extras:<br /><br />Book 1 is 1-25 plus:<br />Passage: between 3/4<br />Demonhorn: between 5/6<br />Cerebus Dreams and A Night on the Town: between 6/7<br />Diamondback: between 10/11<br />The Morning After: between 11/12<br />Magiking: between 12/13<br />Silverspoons: between 13/14<br />What Happened..: between 20/21<br /><br />Book 2 is issues 26-50<br />Book 3 is issues 51-80, plus the Exodus intro from Cerebus Zero, Dreams II from Following Cerebus 10, and Untold Tale from AARGH<br />Books 4 is issue 81-112/113, plus the 112/113 intro from Cerebus Zero<br />Book 5 is 114-150 plus the 137/138 intro from Cerebus Zero<br />Book 6 is 151-174<br />Book 7 is 175-200<br />Book 8 is 201-231<br />Book 9 is 232-265<br />Book 10 is 266-300<br /><br />The bindery I use has these pre-made edge sheets that comprise the paste-down page to the inside covers plus two free pages. If some HC set is done I think sets of sheets like these being signed/numbered by Dave/Gerhard and then sewn in as part of the finished book would present much more professionally than a simple bookplate.<br /><br />Sergio Aragones was here a few years ago and he signed/sketched several of these loose sets for me to use as I complete custom book sets of his work. <br /><br />And several years ago I broached the subject of doing several custom HC sets with Dave's cooperation, sounding him out on the idea via the only phone conversation I've had with him. His view was the shipping would be prohibitive to ship there and back for signatures - but with the pre-made end sheet sets, that cost is minimized. (I have 2 or 3 full runs of the series, I was thinking of some sort of Ultimate Cerebus set Dave could auction. That ship has sailed, and that's OK.)<br /><br />But there's absolutely nothing preventing fans from making their own hardcovers, including or excluding whatever material they see fit, using issues or phonebooks.<br /><br />SteveStevehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06324364972414451992noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2837001751311078781.post-15086587420510735282016-06-30T14:46:45.652-05:002016-06-30T14:46:45.652-05:00Hey Al,
There are loads and loads of obstacles, t...Hey Al,<br /><br />There are loads and loads of obstacles, though, mostly involving distribution method and currently existing inventory. I'm not saying they're insurmountable, but it's not as simple as "sell this thing to us!" <br /><br />Please keep the suggestions coming. And thanks for the great info, Jimmy!Sean Rhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09794186823194520775noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2837001751311078781.post-42292571809088912412016-06-30T14:20:45.762-05:002016-06-30T14:20:45.762-05:00It sounds like the logistical and financial obstac...It sounds like the logistical and financial obstacles for Hardcover volumes really don't exist, especially if you have the cash in-hand up front via Kickstarter. <br /><br />To be honest and FWIW, I have all the remastered versions to date and, at least, doubles of all the other Cerebus volumes; so the only thing that's gonna have me reaching back into my wallet for the original story content again are Hardcover editions. al roneynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2837001751311078781.post-28320928180615347602016-06-30T13:28:35.569-05:002016-06-30T13:28:35.569-05:00I'd also be willing to pony up $100 or so for ...I'd also be willing to pony up $100 or so for high-quality hardcover volumes on Kickstarter, but by all accounts we're going to have to wait until Dave is dead and <i>Cerebus</i> goes into the public domain...Tony one more timenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2837001751311078781.post-18149263378745432572016-06-30T10:54:16.055-05:002016-06-30T10:54:16.055-05:00Also, and for the record, I'd be willing to po...Also, and for the record, I'd be willing to pony up the cash on a per volume basis on Kickstarter. Ibishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09805494114251519448noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2837001751311078781.post-31561583100626894962016-06-30T10:06:57.154-05:002016-06-30T10:06:57.154-05:00This stuff really needs to be in HC one day. I...This stuff really needs to be in HC one day. I've heard of the logistical and financial difficulties involved, so I'm not holding my breath. Still, it needs to be in HC. The world yearns for HC. Can't you hear it groaning? I can. Ibishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09805494114251519448noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2837001751311078781.post-28346202271735793582016-06-30T04:57:01.676-05:002016-06-30T04:57:01.676-05:00While I'd like to see HCs at some point, I thi...While I'd like to see HCs at some point, I think you want to wait until you can get to a point where you can release those books in order. So far with the remastered books, we've gotten them in order, but if Going Home (volume...14, right? No, 13, yeah?) is next, we're skipping around. A lot! I think it's smart to at least see how the sales shake out with this volume before going for a run of HCs. (If Dave even says ok.)<br /><br />Also, do we go bigger with HCs? All of C&S in one book, M&D in one book? Going Home and Form and Void in one book?<br /><br />While I'm not confident in seeing HCs any time soon, who knows, because I sure didn't see Cerebus in Hell? !Travis Pelkienoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2837001751311078781.post-46945218643435992502016-06-30T03:59:35.407-05:002016-06-30T03:59:35.407-05:00Add me in as another voice for a hardcover version...Add me in as another voice for a hardcover version. If there is doubt about the required number of individuals to make such a version viable, I would suggest kickstarter as the perfect mechanism to get peoples money where their mouth is. Keep it simple without a multitude of variants and bonuses. Make it a straight up I want a hardcover version of whichever trade is up next in the remastered form, at the price needed to produce a quality product. Lets see if the market actually exists. If it doesn't and you don't meet the goal then its no loss, but if there are enough people willing to money up the cash then why not?Michaelnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2837001751311078781.post-70673561780972525572016-06-30T00:01:37.995-05:002016-06-30T00:01:37.995-05:00Yes, Sean You absolutely CAN do that!
The printer...Yes, Sean You absolutely CAN do that!<br /><br />The printer we used was called Samwha and was located in Seoul. I believe this was in July of 2006. They provided excellent service, gorgeous full color printing, and were able to do both a hardcover and softcover edition from the same run of interiors. They had smyth sewn bindings and beautiful paper. We did not choose to do dust-jackets, because the market we were going to be selling them to was primarily libraries. I didn't even bother to price dust jackets since we weren't going to need them, so I'm not sure how much that adds to your cost, but for black and white dust jackets like Cerebus would (mostly) need, I'm guessing, not much.<br /><br />I self-published four Amelia Rules! collections before licensing the series to Simon and Schuster. Dave has copies of them, so he can check out the quality.<br /><br />Our initial run of each Amelia Rules! trade was 6,000 copies. 5,000 were paperbacks. 900 were regular hardcovers, and 100 were signed and numbered editions (We did this by adding a bookplate, so there was no on-press changes.) I can't remember the specifics of the Mark-up for each, but as I remember it was the hardcovers that made the books instantly viable, and allowed us to have some cash-on-hand when we had to reprint the paperback editions. We did several more editions of each, but made it clear that the hardcover was a one time only thing. I thought that that way, people would want to get them while they could.<br /><br />I have a copy of Vol. 2 "What Makes You Happy" right here. It retailed for 24.95, is 176 pages in full-color, and even has beautiful full-color endpapers. Between you and me and the internet, I like them better than the ones eventually put out by S and S.<br /><br />I could think of no series more deserving of the deluxe treatment than CEREBUS, and I'm convinced it could be profitable too.<br /><br />You can email me if you have any other questions, or you can get my # from Dave. I'd love to see this happen!Jimmy Gownleyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09569275097672894056noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2837001751311078781.post-68601703188158879412016-06-29T23:23:39.695-05:002016-06-29T23:23:39.695-05:00Hey Bill and Jimmy!
Thanks for the thought-provok...Hey Bill and Jimmy!<br /><br />Thanks for the thought-provoking comments. Sounds like a fine idea for a 40th anniversary celebration, eh? Jimmy, do I understand that some printers will allow a print run to be cased different ways, so you could conceivably make a short run offset hardcover from a portion of a run, in order to meet minimums? What book of yours did you do this for? I'd be curious any details you'd care to share.Sean Rnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2837001751311078781.post-10679054381393284192016-06-29T22:30:17.713-05:002016-06-29T22:30:17.713-05:00I agree with Bill R in regards to hardcovers. As s...I agree with Bill R in regards to hardcovers. As someone who published hardcovers, I can't understand Dave's resistance to them. You're already printing the guts. The cost is not problematic when you consider the mark-up, It would be a newsworthy event in the comics industry, a significant revenue generator for AV, and fans would LOVE them. <br /><br />The restoration work is absolutely stunning (and having seen some C&S 2 pages, you ain't seen nothin' yet!). I think it should be shown off in the best possible format, as should CEREBUS itself... considering it's, y'know, a MASTERPIECE and all.<br /><br />It's never gonna happen, but that's my two cents.<br /><br />Thanks for these posts Sean!Jimmy Gownleyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09569275097672894056noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2837001751311078781.post-84516166359868352052016-06-29T20:30:37.231-05:002016-06-29T20:30:37.231-05:00Also, Sean...always enjoy your posts and descripti...Also, Sean...always enjoy your posts and descriptions, and obviously tremendous and wondrous work you've done. Thanks!Bill Ritternoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2837001751311078781.post-52576788365254866852016-06-29T20:29:42.598-05:002016-06-29T20:29:42.598-05:00Those things I wish for in the realm of Cerebus......Those things I wish for in the realm of Cerebus...<br /><br />Sorry, Sean, for the hijacking as I do not think this quite falls into what you'd asked for.<br /><br />* A "final" volume containing all the other Cerebus stories not printed in the collections. The EPIC Magazine pages, the in-between issues, the one-shots (3D book, Swords story).<br />* A collection of the 19 issues of Cerebus Archives<br />* Aardvark Comment and Letter from the President collection<br />* Special edition hardcover of all volumes (maybe a S/N printing, of only the remastered editions, 500 copies) - this might be a way to get into printing C&S II, Cerebus Vol1, while the softcovers remain in stock<br /><br />As aside...I recently bought the Rachel Rising HDCVR limited for, $100 or so. And the Red Range for $210. Suggesting I'd buy a Cerebus S/N for somewhere around $100-$250. If there are 100 other fans similar to me (lord have mercy), that's $10,000 for 100 copies @ $100 per. $50,000 for 500. Figure the true reality somewhere in the middle...? Sean, you'd know the printing cost for a HDCVR and whether 100 is decent enough margin. But, golly, I'd love something like this on the shelf...<br /><br />Sorry for the hijack.Bill Ritternoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2837001751311078781.post-57135386712488093362016-06-29T19:12:22.473-05:002016-06-29T19:12:22.473-05:00Wowza! Those touched-up pages look amazing.
I lik...Wowza! Those touched-up pages look amazing.<br /><br />I like having any and all commentaries in the back. The map would be a nice addition.<br /><br />I'd prefer the <a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20120626175237/http://www.cereb.us/wiki/index.php?title=Apocrypha" rel="nofollow">Cerebus apocrypha</a> in its own book. I think having them added in interrupts the original pacing Dave had set up with the phonebooks. I'd take out the Silverspoon strips too, but that is just me.Margarethttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04070671522440242311noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2837001751311078781.post-13124084459186128112016-06-29T18:23:57.972-05:002016-06-29T18:23:57.972-05:00Trail: "Doorstops".
Sean: Yes, but us...Trail: "Doorstops".<br /><br />Sean: Yes, but use the one Jeff Tundis made. Six feet X three feet, I believe. ;)Jeff Seilerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15543690118315946039noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2837001751311078781.post-62224469215565670652016-06-29T17:19:04.667-05:002016-06-29T17:19:04.667-05:00How about the Aardvarkian Age map?How about the Aardvarkian Age map?Sean Rnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2837001751311078781.post-42072649296433811822016-06-29T14:24:26.137-05:002016-06-29T14:24:26.137-05:00I really came into Cerebus with the Swords collect...I really came into Cerebus with the Swords collections and left them in a relationship I left 30 years ago. So I would love to have them back in print.<br />I have #51 and #112/3 but would love them AND "what happened..." to be in the new improved phone books (what do we call them now that only people of a certain age understand what is phone book was?).trail of breadhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07404750750499578001noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2837001751311078781.post-35187674431004205672016-06-29T14:08:19.126-05:002016-06-29T14:08:19.126-05:00I agree that the "Silverspoon" strips ar...I agree that the "Silverspoon" strips are essential to the continuity of the storyline in a way that none of the other "apocrypha" are - but "What Happened…" and, to a lesser extent, "Magicking," are definitely <i>part</i> of the continuity in a way that none of the other pieces from outside the monthly book are, as far as I can recall.Tony againnoreply@blogger.com