tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2837001751311078781.post7420899958775640347..comments2024-03-28T05:23:01.707-05:00Comments on A MOMENT OF CEREBUS: Weekly Update #30: The Graying Of The AardvarkA Moment Of Cerebushttp://www.blogger.com/profile/02718525538144698138noreply@blogger.comBlogger14125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2837001751311078781.post-65342325600818125752014-05-16T10:53:32.829-05:002014-05-16T10:53:32.829-05:00More from Colleen--
http://www.adistantsoil.com/2...More from Colleen--<br /><br />http://www.adistantsoil.com/2014/05/16/comic-art-negatives-now-with-more-negativity/<br /><br />I'd say it really depends on what conditions the negatives are in, how densely they might be scratched, amount of warping, etc....Sean Michael Robinsonhttp://livingtheline.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2837001751311078781.post-21660954116848367052014-05-16T04:59:44.701-05:002014-05-16T04:59:44.701-05:00Gah! Dave needs a minister of TL;DR, if you know ...Gah! Dave needs a minister of TL;DR, if you know what I mean ;)<br /><br />No, I love to get the in-depth perspective from Dave. I think it's reading on the computer that makes me go "ah, man..."<br /><br />For a brief while, Erik Larsen was using the "Highbrow" name for his "studio", but apparently it's just him doing Dragon.<br /><br />I think it does depend on the creator (Image and co-publishing), as David Lapham's recently brought back Stray Bullets at Image, and the cover for the latest issue out this week also included the El Capitan logo, so it's probably a case by case basis. I would have said that Colleen was still using the Aria Press logo as well as publishing through Image, but I was apparently wrong.<br /><br />As to Amazon selling copies of the first 2 trades -- unless I'm mistaken, "Amazon" isn't only the website selling copies out of a warehouse, but people with "virtual stores" offering different books for sale. (A la Amazon as a mall and different people selling online as stores within the mall). So the various copies of those trades being offered on Amazon are being offered by individuals/"stores" at what they consider a reasonable price (based on my search just now, from about 18 bucks to ... I think a new one was going for around 60 or so), not necessarily based off their algorithm. <br /><br />Anyway, I really truly honestly am going for the kickstarter before the time is up, I'm just waiting to see the best payment option I have. <br /><br />And I look forward to these posts, much more than I would seeing you sell Cerebus and do it work for hire.<br /><br />Quick question: as I said in another post, I recently picked up a couple of beat up old copies of Swords v2 and 6 -- was Preney the printer on those books?Travis Pelkienoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2837001751311078781.post-48079370994542196722014-05-15T19:38:02.157-05:002014-05-15T19:38:02.157-05:00to EDDIE...
I used:
1) negatives,
2) ar...to EDDIE...<br /><br />I used:<br /> 1) negatives,<br /> 2) artboards and,<br /> 3) scans from first print comic books...<br />I took the best of all and created NEW hirez files.<br /><br />AND...<br />It has never been a page by page adjustment... across the entire 1000 plus pages, it has been a panel by panel adjustment and sometimes CEREBUS ONLY ADJUSTMENT, while the rest of the panel or page had it's own adjustment.<br /><br />AND...<br />Always best to start with artboards... then negatives... then comic books...<br /><br />BUT...<br />the negatives most of the time yeld MORE information than what appears in the printed comics, due to ink swelling... AND THAT is what I discovered a lot of from the negatives that were scanned for HSD... there was soooo much detail lost from the negatives to the printed page... and that was the start of the restoration project for Cerebus v1 and v2.<br /><br />Sean, any thoughts?<br /><br />George<br /><br /><br /><br />George Peter Gatsishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17087382468651635629noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2837001751311078781.post-50151481620911883282014-05-15T19:26:49.887-05:002014-05-15T19:26:49.887-05:00Just out of curiosity; George and Sean ( and anyon...Just out of curiosity; George and Sean ( and anyone else who may have an opinion) what do you think about her process of not using negatives in the restoration? Do negatives yield information that would need to get modified and / or discarded anyways after being digitally tweaked and therefore it's better to scan using other methods(eg printed copies, orig art, etc), or is using negatives a good method to use in restoring ( or rather prepping) the art for printing. Or does it depend on the type of artwork involved. I was curious if there was anywhere that still does the old school negative photo plate method used by Preeney.<br /><br />Apologies if this is a dumb questionEddiehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11831826350149920878noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2837001751311078781.post-77044976257319188062014-05-15T14:59:07.281-05:002014-05-15T14:59:07.281-05:00Nice to know that some minds think alike... :)
Pr...Nice to know that some minds think alike... :)<br /><br />Pretty much what I did, which is listed in detail somewhere else in AMOC...<br /><br />George Peter Gatsishttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17087382468651635629noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2837001751311078781.post-52687492912345997542014-05-14T14:01:30.732-05:002014-05-14T14:01:30.732-05:00Colleen has a response of sorts up that goes throu...Colleen has a response of sorts up that goes through the decision making process on the restoration, and comparing the original negatives to her original artwork--<br /><br />http://www.adistantsoil.com/2014/05/14/comic-art-negatives/Sean Michael Robinsonhttp://livingtheline.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2837001751311078781.post-34546004260443258572014-05-10T18:05:19.130-05:002014-05-10T18:05:19.130-05:00"who, so far as I know, is the only retailer ..."who, so far as I know, is the only retailer who regularly reads these Updates"<br /><br />Hello. Trent Rogers here, proprietor of Future Pastimes in Sarnia, ON, Canada and regular reader of the Updates. Cerebus is my favourite comic series and I've always supported the book and Dave in the shop.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2837001751311078781.post-17219623065900492982014-05-10T17:44:03.825-05:002014-05-10T17:44:03.825-05:00HP has a scanner/printer/fax machine model that sc...HP has a scanner/printer/fax machine model that scans 11 x17 and prints up to 13 x 18. It's the HP OfficeJet 7610. I purchased mine for 180USD and saw one recently for 150USD. The online specs don't mention that it scans at 11 x 17, because it has an automated document feeder that scans a maximum of 8.5 x 14 (legal size), but i own it, the document glass scanner is 11x17, and I've scanned 11x17 documents up to 600 dpi.L Jamal Waltonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10206651766467418370noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2837001751311078781.post-84033627136015552852014-05-10T14:29:30.878-05:002014-05-10T14:29:30.878-05:00"One potential caveat on that, we had a woman..."One potential caveat on that, we had a woman cancel her pledge without explanation, which I suspect might be a This Is What All Good and Decent People SHOULD Be Doing To Dave Sim the Evil Misogynist kind of a gig."<br /><br />Or, y'know, maybe it was someone who thought better of whether she could afford it. Or her circumstances changed when she lost her job. Or her car got totaled on Thursday. Or her cousin asked her for some money. Or any of the multiplicity of completely reasonable reasons why someone who made an actual effort to pledge - so there's a decent chance (I'd suggest at least as decent as the possibility of plotting the pledge/PSYCH! gambit as a methodology) we are talking about a fan either ongoing or lapsed-yet-still-positive here - might have chosen to not follow through with a pledge for this campaign.<br /><br />But hey, it's a female name - why not publicly imply a negative ulterior motive instead?<br /><br />Seems fair. Keep on suspectin', Dave! It's like watching Sherlock Holmes tell that dude he was obviously recently married because of the way he plays with his wedding band!<br />--Bill KremerAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2837001751311078781.post-2535830904887727752014-05-10T11:14:05.352-05:002014-05-10T11:14:05.352-05:004. MOIRE
It's worth noting that there is some...4. MOIRE<br /><br />It's worth noting that there is some minor moire present in some panels of the Preney editions of Cerebus, probably resulting from the tone not being pressed flat to the page. In the test pages I did I kept on seeing it on one panel in particular, until I pulled out the phone book, and hey! There it was as well.<br /><br />Speaking of phone books, I'm going to have to stop here and go work on an illustration. Lots of work this upcoming week that I'm already behind on.<br /><br />But WHEN we're ready to do this, I do not think this has to be the epic task it seems like now. There are several ways to divide out this labor, many ways to make it work in a very quick manner so as to get the books back in circulation and start on the larger endeavor. <br /><br />Best,<br /><br /><br />SeanSean Michael Robinsonhttp://livingtheline.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2837001751311078781.post-22561235573344915432014-05-10T10:59:23.456-05:002014-05-10T10:59:23.456-05:00I actually did some scanning tests yesterday using...I actually did some scanning tests yesterday using a book printed offset before the digital era-- a collection of work by the amazing Charles Gibson (him of the "Gibson Girl"). Teeny tiny lines in abundance, the finest you can make on a piece of paper.<br /><br />Scanned a single face with these lines radiating out from the center of the face (radiating lines are more revealing for these kinds of tests because the individual lines fall on the "grid" of the resolution in different ways depending on their angle)<br /><br />600 dpi is a total mess.<br /><br />1200 dpi still very broken. Compared the on-screen adjusted scan to the book under loupe, and it's clear that it's nowhere near where it needs to be.<br /><br />2400 dpi looked like the book under magnification.<br /><br />Now, these are just screen tests. I'd need to see the results in print to really compare, but I think it might be the right combination. Beyond that resolution? I have no idea how to make it a useful comparison without actually doing a test printing, and my scanner doesn't go beyond that resolution without interpolation.<br /><br /><br />3. PRODEDURE<br /><br />Having multiple scanners working simultaneously is exactly what I called to suggest to you this week. Seems like John beat me to the punch. <br /><br />You can select the type of scanner based on operating speed as well, and I think you can get a much better deal than $700 a pop if you keep in mind they don't have to have great color reproduction (Mustek is an example of a company with terrible (terrible) quality control that produced dirt-cheap products that 3/4s of them function perfectly.) So, a little consumer research by someone who knows your perameters could yield some good results, if they know you're looking primarily for speed and that the color accuracy doesn't matter so much.<br /><br />And, yes, if you're scanning from negatives or printed books of approximately the same age, and you want them to look exactly like the source material, you can automate most of your prepress, print one-off test copies, and only address the problem pages.<br /><br />There will always be a certain amount of adjustment when working from original art, however, as not every line is created equally. Some are greyer than others, and sometimes you'll have break-up that's related to the density of the ink rather than the thickness of the lines. These areas do need to be tweaked separately to avoid them breaking up. (This is not very different from what would have been done by Preney when shooting the negatives).<br /><br />As I mentioned before, there are some disadvantages from working from original art though, specifically tone shrinkage, and, in some cases, yellowing of the board that brings down the contrast between the surface and the line (another reason to scan in color for really yellowed pages).<br /><br /><br /><br /><br />Sean Michael Robinsonhttp://livingtheline.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2837001751311078781.post-72209741890546790832014-05-10T10:41:37.523-05:002014-05-10T10:41:37.523-05:00Hey Dave,
There's a lot ot respond to here, b...Hey Dave,<br /><br />There's a lot ot respond to here, but I'll try to be brief--<br /><br />1. DISTANT SOIL procedure<br /><br />This is exactly what I've been doing, what I've done on every lineart based project I've worked on. Scanned in grayscale (or color, depending on the possible future needs of the artists), adjusted, then at the very last stage converted to bitmap. (this was part of my earlier frustration a few months ago when I started chiming in-- I felt like I was being shot down for describing what is essentially the standard operating procedure when it comes to dealing with line art) Anyway, I'm very grateful to Eddie and Colleen for taking the time to put this procedure in the public record. <br /><br />2. RESOLUTION<br /><br />There's no way to really test whether a resolution higher than 2400 would have any effect at all, short of actually making plates and test printing, as I don't know of any systems that can do one-off output at higher resolutions than 1200 dpi. It's worth noting too that going beyond 2400 dpi means limiting the printers you can work with, as many older platesetter systems (the machine that creates the plate from the digital file)don't go beyond 2400 dpi. Lebonfon's platesetter included.<br /><br />(Although my prepress friend B. says most platesetters of the past decade can handle up to 4000 dpi, although it's almost never used except on circuit boards and other smooth, non-porous surfaces. According to him, anyway, anything over 2400 dpi "fills in" on paper, the ink seeping into the gaps. Then again, that's conventional wisdom with 1200 dpi, and I now know for a fact that's untrue)<br /><br />Want to play along at home? I have two copies of two issues of Glamourpuss at my desk as I type this, having been sent to me by Dave last week (Thanks Dave!)<br /><br />Issue 23 was printed by Comixology on some kind of digital press from reduced 300 dpi files. Thicker lines look okay. Medium thin lines have visible jaggedness and stair-stepping. Thin lines are fragmented and destroyed.<br /><br />Issue 18 was printed by Lebonfon (?) from 1200 dpi bitmapped files. To my naked eye, without the aid of a loupe, everything looks smooth and continuous-- great reproduction-- until you actually make yourself examine the very thinnest lines. Take a look at the model at the top left of page 18, at the feathering on her upper arm. There's a kind of softness to those lines that's visible to my eyes be a distance of a foot. Closer than that, I can see them break up. Under a loupe? Stair stepping.<br /><br />THESE are the microscopic things we're talking about here. Truly, picking at nits.<br /><br />Now, I'm not a young man at 34, but not old either. My eyes are still sharp, and I'm very attuned to these things, but I never noticed this before this discussion. Never. <br /><br />Pulled out one other book where I have a reasonable idea of the type of files supplied-- Heart of Thomas pub. by Fanta. It's printed on much porous paper, and, guess what? Those thinnest lines? Just fuzzy, only a hint of jagged. So the paper itself is part of the issue--the glossy paper used in Glamourpuss is making a sharper impression from the plate, thus preserving the jaggies from the 1200 dpi files.<br /><br />So, just consider--this very fine distinction? We'd be doubling the available information by working at 2400. I can't imagine there being a reason to go beyond that, unless it's to provide one more layer of future-proofing, so that your digital "negatives" could be used to generate larger-format books or prints in the future.<br /><br />Anyway, as long as you're working with a printer that can handle it, there's no problem in going higher as long as you're working with a printer whose platesetter can handle it.<br /><br /><br /><br /><br />Sean Michael Robinsonhttp://livingtheline.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2837001751311078781.post-9149293816014826552014-05-09T18:11:06.460-05:002014-05-09T18:11:06.460-05:00Oh, and you will be listed on the thank-you list i...Oh, and you will be listed on the thank-you list in book 3, because of the very helpful letters you sent me about the first two books. :-)Barry Deutschhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08796981762797604817noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-2837001751311078781.post-87046206471860771532014-05-09T18:09:49.660-05:002014-05-09T18:09:49.660-05:00"I can't say it makes up for the times th..."I can't say it makes up for the times that I've gotten stuff from people who have said that I'm a HUGE influence on them but I'm distinctly NOT on the thank you list in their books..."<br /><br />I hope I wasn't an example you had in mind when you wrote this, although I guess I could be. <br /><br />I've talked about your influence on my work in public (including a "Cerebus In My Life Post" and in interviews), but I had so little space in the book for my thank you list that it had to be limited to people who had given me direct, in-person help with Hereville. <br /><br />If I had room to include major influences, there would have been many more names included, and yours would have been top of that list.<br /><br />Incidentally, almost everyone who runs Kickstarters has some people cancel their pledges. This can happen for a lot of reasons, but usually it's just because the person has some major unexpected expense, or loses a job, and is looking for things to cut back on.Barry Deutschhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08796981762797604817noreply@blogger.com