Hi anonymous! Like you not using your real name to criticize me! I find THAT hilarious! How can you NOT find that hilarious?
Hi Glen: I've asked John Funk to suggest "financial penalties" because he keeps missing his target dates. His target date for CAN4 was February 15th and his revised date is April 18th. I'm pretty patient, but eventually patience runs out.
From yesterday: Unfortunately I had C&S II confused with another volume. There are actually 469 of them in stock, down from 475 since C&s I shipped, so, yes, we are definitely looking at YEARS before Diamond is going to need any more.
According to actuarial tables, I have about 12 years left and ALL of this stuff needs to be scanned, so that's why I tend to preface everything with, "Before I'm dead...". There's a lot needs to be done.
Yes, Tony, I'm pretty sure that such a policy/rule does exist. I think Tim is a bit *too* democratic about allowing Anon to post here, especially since he or she or it (Anon) is nearly always negative in tone and/or content.
Oh, and, Dave? No way I'm buying 469 copies of C&S II. Although, I did order one copy from Jeremy, owner and proprietor of Titan Comics in Dallas, who always keeps all 16 volumes in stock. So, I guess soon it will be just 468 copies of C&S II left at Diamond.
The comments policy is very clearly stated on the 'About' page... So I've deleted those comments above because they were posted anominously... but not because they were negative. Disagreements and alternative views can be very healthy, but if you have the urge to take a stance against Dave Sim, step up and put your name to them.
Oh, well. At least it gives me two more months to save up for more Itoya Art Portfolios (unpaid advertisement for the best way to store and display your Cerebus Archive prints).
I think it's a shame Dave won't be there, but I respect him enough to understand his reasons for not going. Having signed the petition, I do hope one day to meet Dave. But going to see Sandeep and Dave Fisher is like the next best thing.
It's a shame that Anonymous' s comments got deleted, though clearly that person was ignoring the rules - a shame because Anon had a point: the petition has indeed been online for people to sign, but Dave has not been online, and maybe for certain tasks, texts, or topics to maintain a foothold, a steady online presence is required.
I don't know.
I've also not been to enough comic cons to know how helpful THEY are in keeping an artist in the public's eye, but it does seem like they'd be helpful, if the goal is to keep interest in Dave Sim' s works alive.
I'm happy enough enjoying the quality of Cerebus that I don't need Dave to be at a convention. I bought the monthly comics, and the Swords volumes, and the phone books. I've bought plenty of them as gifts for people too. I'm sticking away cash for the remastered versions so I can own the comics for a 4th time. I'm in.
But I'm 49 and I got the Cerebus bug in the 1980s. If Dave really wants an audience beyond the small legion of old faithfuls, he might rethink comic cons and his online presence.
...oh, btw anonymous posting is BS - anywhere and everywhere.
Gutless.
The internet is filled with people who post under an alias or through the veil of "anon", as if that grants an auto-injection of "BEER MUSCLES" (and indeed it does). ...
GROW UP. if you don't have the stones to speak out using your real identity, or your actual name - don't bother.
If there's one thing that I got (and most admire/respect) from Dave (as a reader since 1986), it's his Fearless Flexing of Free Speech (consequences be damned)!!!
Never is his name "anon", unsigned, or under a silly internet handle.
That's cool, very cool.
**********************
The Church and State remastered edition is MAJESTIC.
Only one thing would make it better - HARDCOVER.
C'mon Dave (and Gerhard), it's some of the greatest comics of all time and it deserves the best presentation possible!
Al, I fully agree with you on all of your points, most especially the signing of your own damn name to what you write. My (hand-written or typed) letters to Dave have always been "Dear Dave, ... yours beyond 300, Jeff". That's also why anyone who wishes to disagree with me here can look at my sign-in (Jeff Seiler), and go to town on (or, with) me, publicly.
I wish I could ban anonymous posters from my sites. Alas, I run them for CompuServe, and I'm not permitted such power.
I've probably been online longer than anyone else here. I've been managing discussion forums since 1982, which boggles even my mind. And in the early days of those sites, I did reject anonymity. But in those days, it was enforceable. Everyone was paying six or twelve dollars an hour for access (depending on baud rates from 300 to 1200 baud). We had a lot less trolling in those days--virtually none. Participants took their time seriously, because it was expensive. And, frankly, the overall tone was higher, the intellectual level was higher and there was genuine civility.
Actually, the dialogue-stopping epithet changes over time. Today it may be "misogynist," tomorrow "racist," the day after tomorrow "cis-normative." But the overall point is the same: Now that I can slap this label on you, I never have to actually address anything you say in any substantive way, ever again, because you're a _______, and _______ has no rights in civil society.
I have a question about the petition. After watching this week’s update, I decided to take a look at it – haven’t seen it in a number of years. I don't see my name there but I was one of the first people to sign it. I thought my number initially was in the teens like 16 or 19 or something like that. Now flipping through it, I don't seem to see my name there. And I'm 99% sure I would not have done it anonymously. So I guess my question is if I'm not there, are other names gone or somehow removed. Does anybody have any direct knowledge of how the petition works? Maybe I’m there anonymously but I doubt it. I am certain my name was listed on it originally. Thanks for any help and information.
For some reason, the general public is not given access to the full list of signatories. Rest assured that your signature is still there. The list manager - Margaret Liss, if I'm not mistaken - can see the whole list.
I think that not making the full list of signatories public is just plain wrong. The whole point of the i-petition is for people to, PUBLICLY, declare that they don't believe Dave Sim to be a misogynist. They can add, if they wish, something like, "I hate the bastard and spit on every piece of work he's ever done but, no, he's no misogynist." Or, like me, they can laud him to the point of being labeled a fatuous, fawning idiot, but they're still PUBLICLY declaring their belief that Dave Sim is not a misogynist.
In the US today it's RACIST for sure, although it's getting close to the point now where it's losing it's effectiveness. Not to mention the blow-back as people are just tired of the word being deployed without justification.
I'll bet most people on the street won't even be able to tell you what a misogynist is though, let alone start using it to silence people. It just doesn't have the juice.
FWIW it's worth I signed the petition (awhile ago), it seems important to Dave so that's good enough for me.
Okay, I should have done this first. I don't think that Margaret is the problem. I think Ipetitions has changed their display format, no longer numbering sequentially the people who sign, but, instead, listing them by most recent to most dated, going back eight years.
For some reason, all of the names from somewhere six years ago to the very first one (from Norway), eight years ago, have been erased. Yes, eliminated. That's 208 signatories. (Yeah, I counted them.)
Your country of origin is still listed, though, and you're still registered, somewhere. How do I know that? Because, I tried to sign up again and was refused because I had already signed up.
Still, if Lou (an important supporter of Dave from way back) no longer has his name PUBLICLY displayed, and if I (an important thorn in Dave's side) no longer have my name displayed on the petition, PUBLICLY, along with 206 other signatories, then what's the point?
As the years go by, everything HAS to be "improved". We're signing a petition -- just list the names and be done. It doesn't need to have a fancy display or features. "Form follows function" is being quickly forgotten.
I just went to resign and was refused saying I signed previously.I do hope our names are correctly being counted. I just find it curious when I can't see it. Not as a conspiracy against Dave, just wondering if the site is working properly at all.
And while I'm sure nobody would sign the petition based on seeing my name there, I'm sure some people could be swayed by seeing some of the more prominent signers. Unfortunate.
To me, the lack of signatures isn't that all these comic fans out here in the real world are convinced Dave is a misogynist, but that they don't care about Cerebus or Dave Sim.
Similarly with the conservation / scanning / remastering efforts: the pool of interested fans is tiny and gets smaller as the series progressed.
And on Al Roney's suggestion for hardcover editions, that's easily enough taken care of by a professional book binder. I've done this with several full runs of the issues and phone books - looks quite impressive on a book shelf!
Well, since Sandeep and Dave Fisher are going to be there, why not have a version of the petition there at the con? Presumably a portion of the attendees will be familiar with Dave as a local creator, and if not, there are all those free Cerebus comics being offered to inform them. Perhaps some more signatures would be picked up that way (you know, from actual comics fans at an actual comics event)? (Of course, let them know that their signatures would be added to the iPetition -- or if Sandeep or Dave Fisher have a smartphone, I'd think you could sign them up online directly that way.)
Really, unless Dave is getting invited to cons and turning them down, I don't see what the point of this video was, though. Presumably, then, Dave was invited as a guest. Which makes sense, since it's his hometown con. (and based on the guest list, Dave would be a huge get for them.../snark) I'd actually be interested to learn if Dave is getting invites to cons regularly.
Well, one thing that might be different now (depending on when this was tried) is that smartphones are ubiquitous, so people can go right online (or Sandeep can have his iPhone/Pad/whatever he has set to the iPetition site) at the con, without even having to sign a paper and then have the paper transferred to online.
To Jeff's point, I have noticed with some things that Dave does that if it doesn't go the way he expects right away, he will tend to drop the idea without giving it (to my mind, at least) a fair shake. I certainly don't blame him with things that cost money, but this seems like an idea that doesn't really cost anything, so it's probably worth trying a few times before stopping. Of course, it's not my time and effort being expended here either.
The catch is probably that if you try pushing getting the petition signed, you're distracting from the "hey, here's a bunch of free comics that are awesome, read them!" and bringing the focus to something that should be a secondary consideration.
The certificates in the free books have the AMOC website and Cerebus Downloads and any other relevant Cerebus related web links, right? So that once people get that first hit (heh) they can get more easily?
BTW, just noticed on the counter on the side here, the petition # is up to 667 (the neighbor of the beast). That's almost 20 signatures in the, what, 4 days since Dave filmed this update? That's got to be one of the biggest leaps in ages, right?
Unless it's just that people like Lou and Jeff, in trying to get their signatures to reappear, inadvertently now have signed twice.
It looks like there's no longer an easy way to view all the signatures or when they were signed. No way to easily check to see if still listed. Definitely not an improvement to the displayed format, I'd say.
The complete list of signatories to Dave's petition can now be found here (scroll down): http://www.momentofcerebus.blogspot.co.uk/p/dave-sims-ipetition.html We'll try and update the list once a month or so.
35 comments:
Any word on the shipping dates for "Cerebus Archive Number 4"?
The Kickstarter campaign promised February 2016 but it doesn't look like that goal will be met.
Hi anonymous! Like you not using your real name to criticize me! I find THAT hilarious! How can you NOT find that hilarious?
Hi Glen: I've asked John Funk to suggest "financial penalties" because he keeps missing his target dates. His target date for CAN4 was February 15th and his revised date is April 18th. I'm pretty patient, but eventually patience runs out.
From yesterday: Unfortunately I had C&S II confused with another volume. There are actually 469 of them in stock, down from 475 since C&s I shipped, so, yes, we are definitely looking at YEARS before Diamond is going to need any more.
According to actuarial tables, I have about 12 years left and ALL of this stuff needs to be scanned, so that's why I tend to preface everything with, "Before I'm dead...". There's a lot needs to be done.
Doesn't it say somewhere in the policies of this blog that anonymous comments will be deleted?
Yes, Tony, I'm pretty sure that such a policy/rule does exist. I think Tim is a bit *too* democratic about allowing Anon to post here, especially since he or she or it (Anon) is nearly always negative in tone and/or content.
Tim?
Oh, and, Dave? No way I'm buying 469 copies of C&S II. Although, I did order one copy from Jeremy, owner and proprietor of Titan Comics in Dallas, who always keeps all 16 volumes in stock. So, I guess soon it will be just 468 copies of C&S II left at Diamond.
The comments policy is very clearly stated on the 'About' page... So I've deleted those comments above because they were posted anominously... but not because they were negative. Disagreements and alternative views can be very healthy, but if you have the urge to take a stance against Dave Sim, step up and put your name to them.
Tim
Hey, Tony! Power to the people! You say it, I reiterate it, and BOOM! just like that, he's gone! Cool! Wish it worked like that in everyday life...
April 18th? APRIL (how do you capitalize) 18th!!!
Oh, well. At least it gives me two more months to save up for more Itoya Art Portfolios (unpaid advertisement for the best way to store and display your Cerebus Archive prints).
I think it's a shame Dave won't be there, but I respect him enough to understand his reasons for not going. Having signed the petition, I do hope one day to meet Dave. But going to see Sandeep and Dave Fisher is like the next best thing.
Cerebus: Go AWAY!
(Astoria goes away)
Hopefully Anonymous hasn't gone off to kill the Pope or anything...
(oops...should have written SPOILER ALERT)
It's a shame that Anonymous' s comments got deleted, though clearly that person was ignoring the rules - a shame because Anon had a point: the petition has indeed been online for people to sign, but Dave has not been online, and maybe for certain tasks, texts, or topics to maintain a foothold, a steady online presence is required.
I don't know.
I've also not been to enough comic cons to know how helpful THEY are in keeping an artist in the public's eye, but it does seem like they'd be helpful, if the goal is to keep interest in Dave Sim' s works alive.
I'm happy enough enjoying the quality of Cerebus that I don't need Dave to be at a convention. I bought the monthly comics, and the Swords volumes, and the phone books. I've bought plenty of them as gifts for people too. I'm sticking away cash for the remastered versions so I can own the comics for a 4th time. I'm in.
But I'm 49 and I got the Cerebus bug in the 1980s. If Dave really wants an audience beyond the small legion of old faithfuls, he might rethink comic cons and his online presence.
Jim Sheridan
Funk needs to grab a friend to help him put the folios together.
Dave, you should just put out a call to get some help for the guy.
Life Happens and he may not be able to get it done this time around...
...and relying on just one person on a project is never a good plan.
...oh, btw anonymous posting is BS - anywhere and everywhere.
Gutless.
The internet is filled with people who post under an alias or through the veil of "anon", as if that grants an auto-injection of "BEER MUSCLES" (and indeed it does).
...
GROW UP. if you don't have the stones to speak out using your real identity, or your actual name - don't bother.
If there's one thing that I got (and most admire/respect) from Dave (as a reader since 1986), it's his Fearless Flexing of Free Speech (consequences be damned)!!!
Never is his name "anon", unsigned, or under a silly internet handle.
That's cool, very cool.
**********************
The Church and State remastered edition is MAJESTIC.
Only one thing would make it better - HARDCOVER.
C'mon Dave (and Gerhard), it's some of the greatest comics of all time and it deserves the best presentation possible!
Al, I fully agree with you on all of your points, most especially the signing of your own damn name to what you write. My (hand-written or typed) letters to Dave have always been "Dear Dave, ... yours beyond 300, Jeff". That's also why anyone who wishes to disagree with me here can look at my sign-in (Jeff Seiler), and go to town on (or, with) me, publicly.
Just like they can with Dave Sim.
...that being said, Dave is waaaaaaay off. RACIST is the word used to silence, not MISOGYNIST...
...seriously...
...MISOGYNIST? Most (close to everyone) haven't a clue.
Dave's being a wuss on this one.
I wish I could ban anonymous posters from my sites. Alas, I run them for CompuServe, and I'm not permitted such power.
I've probably been online longer than anyone else here. I've been managing discussion forums since 1982, which boggles even my mind. And in the early days of those sites, I did reject anonymity. But in those days, it was enforceable. Everyone was paying six or twelve dollars an hour for access (depending on baud rates from 300 to 1200 baud). We had a lot less trolling in those days--virtually none. Participants took their time seriously, because it was expensive. And, frankly, the overall tone was higher, the intellectual level was higher and there was genuine civility.
But, then, we tossed uncivil people out.
Ah, halcyon days.
Actually, the dialogue-stopping epithet changes over time. Today it may be "misogynist," tomorrow "racist," the day after tomorrow "cis-normative." But the overall point is the same: Now that I can slap this label on you, I never have to actually address anything you say in any substantive way, ever again, because you're a _______, and _______ has no rights in civil society.
I have a question about the petition. After watching this week’s update, I decided to take a look at it – haven’t seen it in a number of years. I don't see my name there but I was one of the first people to sign it. I thought my number initially was in the teens like 16 or 19 or something like that. Now flipping through it, I don't seem to see my name there. And I'm 99% sure I would not have done it anonymously. So I guess my question is if I'm not there, are other names gone or somehow removed. Does anybody have any direct knowledge of how the petition works? Maybe I’m there anonymously but I doubt it. I am certain my name was listed on it originally. Thanks for any help and information.
Lou Valenti
For some reason, the general public is not given access to the full list of signatories. Rest assured that your signature is still there. The list manager - Margaret Liss, if I'm not mistaken - can see the whole list.
I think that not making the full list of signatories public is just plain wrong. The whole point of the i-petition is for people to, PUBLICLY, declare that they don't believe Dave Sim to be a misogynist. They can add, if they wish, something like, "I hate the bastard and spit on every piece of work he's ever done but, no, he's no misogynist." Or, like me, they can laud him to the point of being labeled a fatuous, fawning idiot, but they're still PUBLICLY declaring their belief that Dave Sim is not a misogynist.
Put up the entire list, Margaret.
@Tony
In the US today it's RACIST for sure, although it's getting close to the point now where it's losing it's effectiveness. Not to mention the blow-back as people are just tired of the word being deployed without justification.
I'll bet most people on the street won't even be able to tell you what a misogynist is though, let alone start using it to silence people. It just doesn't have the juice.
FWIW it's worth I signed the petition (awhile ago), it seems important to Dave so that's good enough for me.
Okay, I should have done this first. I don't think that Margaret is the problem. I think Ipetitions has changed their display format, no longer numbering sequentially the people who sign, but, instead, listing them by most recent to most dated, going back eight years.
For some reason, all of the names from somewhere six years ago to the very first one (from Norway), eight years ago, have been erased. Yes, eliminated. That's 208 signatories. (Yeah, I counted them.)
Your country of origin is still listed, though, and you're still registered, somewhere. How do I know that? Because, I tried to sign up again and was refused because I had already signed up.
Still, if Lou (an important supporter of Dave from way back) no longer has his name PUBLICLY displayed, and if I (an important thorn in Dave's side) no longer have my name displayed on the petition, PUBLICLY, along with 206 other signatories, then what's the point?
Thanks Tony and Jeff for your replies.
As the years go by, everything HAS to be "improved". We're signing a petition -- just list the names and be done. It doesn't need to have a fancy display or features. "Form follows function" is being quickly forgotten.
I just went to resign and was refused saying I signed previously.I do hope our names are correctly being counted. I just find it curious when I can't see it. Not as a conspiracy against Dave, just wondering if the site is working properly at all.
And while I'm sure nobody would sign the petition based on seeing my name there, I'm sure some people could be swayed by seeing some of the more prominent signers. Unfortunate.
To me, the lack of signatures isn't that all these comic fans out here in the real world are convinced Dave is a misogynist, but that they don't care about Cerebus or Dave Sim.
Similarly with the conservation / scanning / remastering efforts: the pool of interested fans is tiny and gets smaller as the series progressed.
And on Al Roney's suggestion for hardcover editions, that's easily enough taken care of by a professional book binder. I've done this with several full runs of the issues and phone books - looks quite impressive on a book shelf!
Steve
Well, since Sandeep and Dave Fisher are going to be there, why not have a version of the petition there at the con? Presumably a portion of the attendees will be familiar with Dave as a local creator, and if not, there are all those free Cerebus comics being offered to inform them. Perhaps some more signatures would be picked up that way (you know, from actual comics fans at an actual comics event)? (Of course, let them know that their signatures would be added to the iPetition -- or if Sandeep or Dave Fisher have a smartphone, I'd think you could sign them up online directly that way.)
Really, unless Dave is getting invited to cons and turning them down, I don't see what the point of this video was, though. Presumably, then, Dave was invited as a guest. Which makes sense, since it's his hometown con. (and based on the guest list, Dave would be a huge get for them.../snark) I'd actually be interested to learn if Dave is getting invites to cons regularly.
Dang - great idea, Travis. Sandeep? Whaddaya say? Paper copies of the petition at the Con?
By the way, I think it's safe to say that these days "homophobic" trumps "racist" - just ask any of a number of black pastors!
I think that signing the petition at cons was tried before, with mixed results. But it wouldn't hurt to try again, I guess.
Well, one thing that might be different now (depending on when this was tried) is that smartphones are ubiquitous, so people can go right online (or Sandeep can have his iPhone/Pad/whatever he has set to the iPetition site) at the con, without even having to sign a paper and then have the paper transferred to online.
To Jeff's point, I have noticed with some things that Dave does that if it doesn't go the way he expects right away, he will tend to drop the idea without giving it (to my mind, at least) a fair shake. I certainly don't blame him with things that cost money, but this seems like an idea that doesn't really cost anything, so it's probably worth trying a few times before stopping. Of course, it's not my time and effort being expended here either.
The catch is probably that if you try pushing getting the petition signed, you're distracting from the "hey, here's a bunch of free comics that are awesome, read them!" and bringing the focus to something that should be a secondary consideration.
The certificates in the free books have the AMOC website and Cerebus Downloads and any other relevant Cerebus related web links, right? So that once people get that first hit (heh) they can get more easily?
BTW, just noticed on the counter on the side here, the petition # is up to 667 (the neighbor of the beast). That's almost 20 signatures in the, what, 4 days since Dave filmed this update? That's got to be one of the biggest leaps in ages, right?
Unless it's just that people like Lou and Jeff, in trying to get their signatures to reappear, inadvertently now have signed twice.
It looks like there's no longer an easy way to view all the signatures or when they were signed. No way to easily check to see if still listed. Definitely not an improvement to the displayed format, I'd say.
The complete list of signatories to Dave's petition can now be found here (scroll down):
http://www.momentofcerebus.blogspot.co.uk/p/dave-sims-ipetition.html
We'll try and update the list once a month or so.
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