AMOC comments should be separated in the same way that Dave suggested Twitter be separated during the CAN8 Q&A: an AMOC for commenters who use their real names and an AMOC for those who choose to remain anonymous. AMOC I and AMOC II. AMOC I for serious, lively, discussions about Dave Sim/Cerebus/Comics. AMOC II for the insipid, the inane, the insecure, the cowardly.
I mean, whomever that is is just quoting me from the other day, but I have no problem putting my name on it: these comics are embarrassing. They’re both badly written AND not funny, and the fact that *this* is what Dave is spending his time on is depressing as hell. Rather than working on (good) new stuff, or working on presenting his “life’s work” in a manner that could last (I.e. not those wretched “Phone Books”) he does this, and when people don’t care about his crappy comics, he can make another declaration that he’s being “ostracized for his views.” “Batvark Penis!?” My eyes rolled so hard my face broke.
Okay, Ben, a few weeks ago, when I "complained" about the strips going "blue", and you responded along the lines of "wait until you see what's cumming".
I was skeptical, especially when Ben told me that Dave wrote most of them.
My reaction today was "Whoa!". You guys went into the "scary", hooded, "spot"? WHOA!!!
BTW, knowing how to find it is the real key to a woman's heart. Knowing the alphabet while you're performing the Latin action gets you major after-loving.
Thank you, Nicholas for “putting your name” on it. Sorry to hear that you don’t find the strips funny nor good. That’s your observation of things and I cannot dissuade you from that viewpoint. Also, I cannot dissuade you from thinking Dave’s decision to focus on Cerebus is sad. Still, I take issue with the opinion that Dave is NOT trying to create work in a manner that will last. The CAN Kickstarters are meant to preserve the Cerebus narrative for posterity. Here’s an experiment: compare a phone book from say 2004 in terms of paper quality and composition to those contained in a REMASTERED edition. I think if you were to do that you might realize Dave, Sean, Eddie, et. al are doing their best to preserve Cerebus in a manner that will last. Also Cerebusdownloads.com is an attempt to preserve the graphic novel for the digital age.
As for Cerebus in Hell? Yes, it’s not “Cerebus.” But Dave has made the point before that such was not the point of the strips or the comics. They are gags. The idea is that if Cerebus is indeed in Hell that he would be restricted in his manner of behavior and reactions to things going on in Hell. It’s his punishment. He once was privy to the full spectrum of worldly experience. But in Hell? his poses are literally down to three or four gestures instead of an infinite variety of them.
Too, I think Dave and the CIH? do poke fun at the comics field, cunningly I might add. On the surface BATVARK PENIS seems like lurid exercise in attracting an audience. However, I think that would be an unfair assumption to make. The upcoming Cerebus #1 has a parody cover of BATMAN DAMNED, the “Black Label” comic that DC pulled out of distribution over the uproar of Bruce Wayne being depicted frontally nude. There is method in the madness to the Cerebus #1s. Granted, it’s not to everybody’s taste, maybe even esoteric at times. However, I don’t see them as a waste of time in general, and certainly not of Dave’s time in particular.
There’s merit within them I think. Still, I understand where a fan who is expecting a narrative like “Cerebus” might be disappointed in Cerebus in Hell? which is legitimate and valid response.
1 of 2: Nicholas: It makes me very sad to say that I completely agree with your concise assessment of the current state of affairs. As a fan of Dave's work since 1989, I've continued to support all of his projects from Cerebus and beyond. This includes: Buying 'Following Cerebus' (definitely worthwhile), the Cerebus Archive comics (even more worthwhile), Judenhass (an underrated and important document focussing on The Holocaust), Glamourpuss (hit and miss, but still worth it for the artwork) and contributing to all of the Kickstrarter campaigns (I'm still waiting for CAN8 - Eddie?)
2 of 2: I've also bought every issue of Cerebus In Hell? to date and I personally find them either unfunny or difficult to understand. They're certainly not on my 're-read' list (if I actually had a 're-read' list!). I will continue to contribute my monthly $5 CAN to Patreon in the hopes that Dave will eventually continue with TSDOAR. Lately, I've found a lot the comments on AMOC to be filled with what I would endearingly refer to as 'squabbling old men' and, with respect to Matt Dow (who continues to do an outstanding job maintaining the AMOC website), I've had enough now. And, since this will be my final post on this blog: Matt: Keep on keeping on – you are a legend! Margaret: Ditto. Brian: Ditto. Jeff: Keep safe and happy and healthy. Damian: You’ve never hidden your identity behind anonymity and, although you have your knockers, I’ve always appreciated your repudiation of some of the more sycophantic views expressed on this site. See you all in the funny papers! Lee
Fake? The women who receive my sex acts, the day after I perform the actual acts, usually have blushing, glowing things to say.
Just sayin'.
I mean if Dave can write about the actual female appendage, then I should be allowed to make a vague (but suggestive) reference to it. And, if you haven't learned the alphabet, your wife or girlfriend would VERY much appreciate it if you did.
Usually, you only have to get to L or M, but Z is a nice icing on the cake.
Good evening, Lee. If the “Brian” you referred to was me, then I am humbled by your well wishes. As a newcomer here I truly appreciate the sentiment. If I am not the “Brian” you were referring to then please accept my apologies. I wish you the best regardless.
For those who think anonymous authors are cowardly: you can't reply to the content, so you attack irrelevancies. Eemind us again who wrote, say, the Federalist Papers?
Anons ate not necessarily cowardly? although many are. Some, however, wish to remain anonymous because of business or very personal reasons, or just for fun, as I once did.
But, as Dave Sim once wrote here about me, I try always to be a "stand-up" guy. If I have an actual opinion, or argument, which might piss people off, I sign my name to it.
Points taken, Jeff, and well said. That’s a different perspective I hadn’t thought about.
Damian, I’m not going to dignify the content of a post here if the originator of a post won’t attach his/her/it’s name to that post. The content doesn’t frighten me at all. I see more random, unhinged, violent use of language on a daily basis on Twitter.
However I’d like to think that I am among friends here. But you might float differently? That’s fine, needed perhaps. Still, where I am sitting, I choose not to deign anonymous posts here, those which are clearly meant to antagonize instead of further the discussion, with a direct response.
“Anonymous” might be John Jay or a comics fan from Vancouver or a four year old playing grown-up on his daddy’s android or a furry for all I care. The status of the commenter is irrelevant to me. What is relevant to me is the commenter’s willingness to take the time - three, six seconds tops - to attach a name to his/her/it’s thoughts and reflections here.
In my mind doing so demonstrates a mature level of sophistication and engagement with the subjects at hand. It also informs me that the commenter might be willing to take not only the subjects discussed seriously, but the other commenters seriously as well. The fact that you yourself are willing to put your name here, Damian, to your comments is one of the reasons I am willing to engage with your arguments here, no matter how condescending and unnecessarily provocative they seem to me at times. We are practicing basic human decency here at this level, I think. So, the least a commenter could do for me is to ascribe their name to what they say. In my mind it’s how adults are normally suppose to engage with one another during public discourse.
Of course, that’s my own personal preference. I respect yours because you at the least attach a name on what you say.
Damian, get your facts straight when you utter my name. I won’t dignify “anonymous” comments here. Period. Doing so is beneath me. Refutation is besides the point. As someone who fancies himself a sophisticate your response leaves much to be desired. It’s beneath you. Maybe. See you tomorrow.
I seem to have hit a nerve there. Happy to be of service, Damian. As Aardvark-Vanaheim’s Fool-In-Residence you could stand to be less tone deaf with your comments, I think. Thanks for noticing. Look forward to future discussions between the two of us.
Aw, Bri-Bri, whatta ya tryin' ta do, hurt my feelings? Your advice continues to be as useful and accurate as ever; thanks. You don't discuss; you pontificate.
I dunno...it's a open field that requires no entry validation. I guess someone making up a name to satisfy a prerequisite condition for dialogue is more rationale than anonymous. Signed Bill Ritter
D? The guy who lives, gently, in the Off-White House is *very* proud of his career work. Quietly, but proudly.
I haven't talked much about this, especially here, BUT, that old guy deserves at least as much respect, as he got many awards. Plus, if he counts you as a "friend," you getta lot of nice, unexpected, stuff.
"Friend", for Dave, is an, at least, a word at which he laughs. belly laughs.
It is nice to know a nice guy.
Aaron is in that category. Aaron is my friend with whom I have travelled around the country, with his family. To baseball stadiums around the continent.
And, when we're there, it's pretty fucking incredible. Just ask Aaron.
I think being civil is what's important and having something worthwhile to contribute. The latter can be debated or is a matter of taste but the former should be pretty standard. You can disagree with someone without insulting them or being rude.
Sorry about that last post. I sort of tailed off there at the end and then included part of something about Gerhard. Sorry. In my defense, I've gotten concussed twice in the past two weeks. And, no, I don't play football.
Are you sure about Monroe? I always thought it was Madison. And no, I'm not going to "DuckDuckGo it." (I could dig out my old paperback copy but I can't be bothered, not for an obscure blog comment that only 5 people will ever read.)
Yes, Tony, it was Madison. He was the "front man", but I think that it was Hamilton who wrote the best parts, the enduring parts, the ones that truly shaped the U.S. government, for better or worse.
A Fake: Thank you for your concern. Two concussions in two weeks is nothing to sneeze at, as they say. I have stopped wearing flip-flops, as they seem to contribute strongly to falling or tripping. As to my health, I am reasonably well, except for a constant, low-grade headache. As the singer once sang, "That's life." We get what we get.
I'm reminded, daily, of just why Junior Seau took his own life: He had, I think, 9 football concussions. I've only had two (non-football-related), but 2 in 2 weeks is not good. I think you might agree.
Your concern for me is perhaps unmerited, given our online history at AMOC, but is very kind and *very* much appreciated.
34 comments:
"These are not good."
AMOC comments should be separated in the same way that Dave suggested Twitter be separated during the CAN8 Q&A: an AMOC for commenters who use their real names and an AMOC for those who choose to remain anonymous. AMOC I and AMOC II. AMOC I for serious, lively, discussions about Dave Sim/Cerebus/Comics. AMOC II for the insipid, the inane, the insecure, the cowardly.
I mean, whomever that is is just quoting me from the other day, but I have no problem putting my name on it: these comics are embarrassing. They’re both badly written AND not funny, and the fact that *this* is what Dave is spending his time on is depressing as hell. Rather than working on (good) new stuff, or working on presenting his “life’s work” in a manner that could last (I.e. not those wretched “Phone Books”) he does this, and when people don’t care about his crappy comics, he can make another declaration that he’s being “ostracized for his views.” “Batvark Penis!?” My eyes rolled so hard my face broke.
Okay, Ben, a few weeks ago, when I "complained" about the strips going "blue", and you responded along the lines of "wait until you see what's cumming".
I was skeptical, especially when Ben told me that Dave wrote most of them.
My reaction today was "Whoa!". You guys went into the "scary", hooded, "spot"? WHOA!!!
BTW, knowing how to find it is the real key to a woman's heart. Knowing the alphabet while you're performing the Latin action gets you major after-loving.
Jeff,
I think it's safe to say no one wants to read your sex tips.
A Fake Name
Thank you, Nicholas for “putting your name” on it. Sorry to hear that you don’t find the strips funny nor good. That’s your observation of things and I cannot dissuade you from that viewpoint. Also, I cannot dissuade you from thinking Dave’s decision to focus on Cerebus is sad. Still, I take issue with the opinion that Dave is NOT trying to create work in a manner that will last. The CAN Kickstarters are meant to preserve the Cerebus narrative for posterity. Here’s an experiment: compare a phone book from say 2004 in terms of paper quality and composition to those contained in a REMASTERED edition. I think if you were to do that you might realize Dave, Sean, Eddie, et. al are doing their best to preserve Cerebus in a manner that will last. Also Cerebusdownloads.com is an attempt to preserve the graphic novel for the digital age.
As for Cerebus in Hell? Yes, it’s not “Cerebus.” But Dave has made the point before that such was not the point of the strips or the comics. They are gags. The idea is that if Cerebus is indeed in Hell that he would be restricted in his manner of behavior and reactions to things going on in Hell. It’s his punishment. He once was privy to the full spectrum of worldly experience. But in Hell? his poses are literally down to three or four gestures instead of an infinite variety of them.
Too, I think Dave and the CIH? do poke fun at the comics field, cunningly I might add. On the surface BATVARK PENIS seems like lurid exercise in attracting an audience. However, I think that would be an unfair assumption to make. The upcoming Cerebus #1 has a parody cover of BATMAN DAMNED, the “Black Label” comic that DC pulled out of distribution over the uproar of Bruce Wayne being depicted frontally nude. There is method in the madness to the Cerebus #1s. Granted, it’s not to everybody’s taste, maybe even esoteric at times. However, I don’t see them as a waste of time in general, and certainly not of Dave’s time in particular.
There’s merit within them I think. Still, I understand where a fan who is expecting a narrative like “Cerebus” might be disappointed in Cerebus in Hell? which is legitimate and valid response.
Thanks Jeff Seiler! I appreciate your good cheer and sense of humor.
1 of 2: Nicholas: It makes me very sad to say that I completely agree with your concise assessment of the current state of affairs. As a fan of Dave's work since 1989, I've continued to support all of his projects from Cerebus and beyond. This includes: Buying 'Following Cerebus' (definitely worthwhile), the Cerebus Archive comics (even more worthwhile), Judenhass (an underrated and important document focussing on The Holocaust), Glamourpuss (hit and miss, but still worth it for the artwork) and contributing to all of the Kickstrarter campaigns (I'm still waiting for CAN8 - Eddie?)
2 of 2: I've also bought every issue of Cerebus In Hell? to date and I personally find them either unfunny or difficult to understand. They're certainly not on my 're-read' list (if I actually had a 're-read' list!). I will continue to contribute my monthly $5 CAN to Patreon in the hopes that Dave will eventually continue with TSDOAR.
Lately, I've found a lot the comments on AMOC to be filled with what I would endearingly refer to as 'squabbling old men' and, with respect to Matt Dow (who continues to do an outstanding job maintaining the AMOC website), I've had enough now. And, since this will be my final post on this blog: Matt: Keep on keeping on – you are a legend! Margaret: Ditto. Brian: Ditto. Jeff: Keep safe and happy and healthy. Damian: You’ve never hidden your identity behind anonymity and, although you have your knockers, I’ve always appreciated your repudiation of some of the more sycophantic views expressed on this site. See you all in the funny papers! Lee
Bye, Lee, but I suspect that you will return.
Fake? The women who receive my sex acts, the day after I perform the actual acts, usually have blushing, glowing things to say.
Just sayin'.
I mean if Dave can write about the actual female appendage, then I should be allowed to make a vague (but suggestive) reference to it. And, if you haven't learned the alphabet, your wife or girlfriend would VERY much appreciate it if you did.
Usually, you only have to get to L or M, but Z is a nice icing on the cake.
Damian has knockers? You mean he's......trans???!?
Good evening, Lee. If the “Brian” you referred to was me, then I am humbled by your well wishes. As a newcomer here I truly appreciate the sentiment. If I am not the “Brian” you were referring to then please accept my apologies. I wish you the best regardless.
For those who think anonymous authors are cowardly: you can't reply to the content, so you attack irrelevancies. Eemind us again who wrote, say, the Federalist Papers?
-- Damian
Damian--Monroe and Madison and, perhaps (?) Jefferson.
Try again, Canuck.
Anons ate not necessarily cowardly? although many are. Some, however, wish to remain anonymous because of business or very personal reasons, or just for fun, as I once did.
But, as Dave Sim once wrote here about me, I try always to be a "stand-up" guy. If I have an actual opinion, or argument, which might piss people off, I sign my name to it.
You know, like Dave does.
Now, funny? Or, attempts at funny?
Usually "Anon".
Correction: a comma after "cowardly".
Points taken, Jeff, and well said. That’s a different perspective I hadn’t thought about.
Damian, I’m not going to dignify the content of a post here if the originator of a post won’t attach his/her/it’s name to that post. The content doesn’t frighten me at all. I see more random, unhinged, violent use of language on a daily basis on Twitter.
However I’d like to think that I am among friends here. But you might float differently? That’s fine, needed perhaps. Still, where I am sitting, I choose not to deign anonymous posts here, those which are clearly meant to antagonize instead of further the discussion, with a direct response.
“Anonymous” might be John Jay or a comics fan from Vancouver or a four year old playing grown-up on his daddy’s android or a furry for all I care. The status of the commenter is irrelevant to me. What is relevant to me is the commenter’s willingness to take the time - three, six seconds tops - to attach a name to his/her/it’s thoughts and reflections here.
In my mind doing so demonstrates a mature level of sophistication and engagement with the subjects at hand. It also informs me that the commenter might be willing to take not only the subjects discussed seriously, but the other commenters seriously as well. The fact that you yourself are willing to put your name here, Damian, to your comments is one of the reasons I am willing to engage with your arguments here, no matter how condescending and unnecessarily provocative they seem to me at times. We are practicing basic human decency here at this level, I think. So, the least a commenter could do for me is to ascribe their name to what they say. In my mind it’s how adults are normally suppose to engage with one another during public discourse.
Of course, that’s my own personal preference. I respect yours because you at the least attach a name on what you say.
Your name* on what you say, I should have typed.
And the name they used, Jeffie? C'mon, you can do it. It's your country; you should know this stuff.
And Brian W. won't dignify comments he can't refute? Oh! Ha ha hah!
-- Damian
Damian, get your facts straight when you utter my name. I won’t dignify “anonymous” comments here. Period. Doing so is beneath me. Refutation is besides the point. As someone who fancies himself a sophisticate your response leaves much to be desired. It’s beneath you. Maybe. See you tomorrow.
Thanks for your advice, Brian W. I'll give it all the consideration it deserves. I hope you and your tone policing are very happy together, snowflake.
-- Damian
I seem to have hit a nerve there. Happy to be of service, Damian. As Aardvark-Vanaheim’s Fool-In-Residence you could stand to be less tone deaf with your comments, I think. Thanks for noticing. Look forward to future discussions between the two of us.
Aw, Bri-Bri, whatta ya tryin' ta do, hurt my feelings? Your advice continues to be as useful and accurate as ever; thanks. You don't discuss; you pontificate.
-- D.
I dunno...it's a open field that requires no entry validation. I guess someone making up a name to satisfy a prerequisite condition for dialogue is more rationale than anonymous.
Signed Bill Ritter
D? The guy who lives, gently, in the Off-White House is *very* proud of his career work. Quietly, but proudly.
I haven't talked much about this, especially here, BUT, that old guy deserves at least as much respect, as he got many awards. Plus, if he counts you as a "friend," you getta lot of nice, unexpected, stuff.
"Friend", for Dave, is an, at least, a word at which he laughs. belly laughs.
It is nice to know a nice guy.
Aaron is in that category. Aaron is my friend with whom I have travelled around the country, with his family. To baseball stadiums around the continent.
And, when we're there, it's pretty fucking incredible. Just ask Aaron.
rom Ger, bregrudgingly, g
I think being civil is what's important and having something worthwhile to contribute. The latter can be debated or is a matter of taste but the former should be pretty standard. You can disagree with someone without insulting them or being rude.
cheers,
A Fake Name
Fake: You would think...
Manly Matt Dow
Head-honcho man
A Moment of Cerebus
Sorry about that last post. I sort of tailed off there at the end and then included part of something about Gerhard. Sorry. In my defense, I've gotten concussed twice in the past two weeks. And, no, I don't play football.
Damian? It was Hamilton, Monroe, and Jay, under the pseudonym of "Publius", which was very appropriate.
Are you sure about Monroe? I always thought it was Madison. And no, I'm not going to "DuckDuckGo it." (I could dig out my old paperback copy but I can't be bothered, not for an obscure blog comment that only 5 people will ever read.)
Jeff,
If you see this, take care of yourself, concussions are serious and shouldn't be ignored, hopefully you're doing better.
A Fake Name
Yes, Tony, it was Madison. He was the "front man", but I think that it was Hamilton who wrote the best parts, the enduring parts, the ones that truly shaped the U.S. government, for better or worse.
A Fake: Thank you for your concern. Two concussions in two weeks is nothing to sneeze at, as they say. I have stopped wearing flip-flops, as they seem to contribute strongly to falling or tripping. As to my health, I am reasonably well, except for a constant, low-grade headache. As the singer once sang, "That's life." We get what we get.
I'm reminded, daily, of just why Junior Seau took his own life: He had, I think, 9 football concussions. I've only had two (non-football-related), but 2 in 2 weeks is not good. I think you might agree.
Your concern for me is perhaps unmerited, given our online history at AMOC, but is very kind and *very* much appreciated.
Thank you, sincerely.
Jeff
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