Wednesday, 23 March 2016

The Cerebus Oversize Project #4: Cerebus No.130, pg. 6-7



The other big impetus behind TCOP was the double-page spreads that were drawn on oversized sheets of illustration board.  

Seriously. Would you rather see this two-page spread reduced down to the size of an 11x17 Bonus Print?  Or would you like the chance to print out "size as"…OR LARGER?

The other problem, of course, is how do you pick WHICH two-page spreads?  Same deal as SIX DEADLY SINS.  Whichever ones you pick, all you're going to do is stress out the people who wanted you to pick OTHER two-page spreads.

We've opted for what we hope is the widest selection at the most reasonable price. 

If we "stall out" at $75 in total pledges after a few days, then we will have guessed wrong -- AND EVERYONE WILL BE ABLE TO SEE IT IN REAL TIME! GULP!


One of our big priorities was to offer a good deal for quantity while also making sure that people with shallow pockets (which is most of us, nowadays) can not only pick up one or two TCOP Images for an affordable price, but that they can do so on an on-going basis.  With virtually ALL of the Aardvark-Vanaheim cash going towards restoration and scanning these days, I'm definitely in that category: "No, I can't afford to buy them all at once, but -- hmmm -- one or two every payday? Given that as soon as I click it, I've got it?"  

21 comments:

al roney said...

This answer probably won't help all that much, but as to whether I personally would like to see a two-pager reduced to an 11x17 bonus print OR the option to print in the size of my choosing?

It all depends on the two-pager.

I doubt I'd want to blow up this particular two-pager from Jaka's story, so I'd probably nab it as a scaled down BP.

If we're talking about (broken record alert) Phone Book covers, or other poster-sized works, well then, yes, I'd like to print those up as large as possible.

A Moment Of Cerebus said...

Dave/Sandeep,

In the interests of initiating a discussion, I thought I'd share what I'd be looking for when deciding to pay for a TCOP digital download...

In the absence of anyone putting out an 'Art Of Dave Sim' book, I'd be very interested in any illustrations not contained in the monthly comics (like Cerebus Sledgehammer) which I may have missed out on the first time around. I already have a copy of 'Six Deadly Sins' so I wouldn't need to buy those, but how about making the 'First Fifth' series of prints available. I definitely would be interested in the monthly Cerebus covers (despite the long promised IDW book coming out shortly) as the opportunity to print at a larger size would be irresistible.

I do appreciate the Kickstarter Cerebus Archive original art prints with Dave's commentary, but I probably wouldn't have the urge to go to the hassle of getting a hard copy print sorted out for myself of story pages. I could well be in a minority here and there certainly is a trend/market for 'Archive' style reproductions. Maybe it would depend on the page in question (he said hedging his bets...).

Anyone else have any thoughts on this?

Tim

Steve Harold said...

I love the idea of this project as an additional fundraiser.
My concerns are over this conflicting with the Cerebus Archive
Portfolios. I think this should be for art other than the
actual Cerebus storyline which is featured in the Archive
portfolios and in the restorations. The First Fifth prints and
the Six Deadly Sins are a perfect works for this application.

Dave Sim said...

COUNTDOWN: TWO DAYS AND THREE HOURS TO TCOP LAUNCH!

Hi Steve Harold - we are definitely avoiding the CEREBUS ARCHIVE pages with TCOP -- that is, the first ten pages of each trade paperback in the Cerebus Archive. Sandeep accidentally had a page from CAN4 in there and it's been taken out.

[BTW John has finished the survey stage and has forwarded the numbering for the main plates to Sean so that can be programmed in. We're still looking at "end of April" as a conservative revised target date, at this point]

Assuming that we do two Kickstarters a year, we're still AT LEAST five years away from completing the first "'go 'round". And I am determined to stick to a chronological and sequential format with CA. We get as far as we can and if it isn't viable -- as I told my accountant at the A-V "year end" meeting, my biggest problem is remembering what letter I'm on. Is this Plan Q? Plan R? Plan S?

There will be SOME interior pages included in the launch because we have to take into account differing preferences. There are some extremely irritated people who REALLY don't want a chronological approach because they know it will be a long time until we get to their favourite pages. People who want all EARLY pages and people who want all LATER pages.

Best always to Liz, Amber, Amanda, Peyton and Bonut!

Dave Sim said...

al roney - Hi, al! Well, as Alan Fotheringham used to say, "That certainly muddifies the fuzzification".

If you're suggesting that we offer all of the TCOP pieces as reduced Bonus Prints as well, I'm not sure if that's logistically possible. The Bonus Prints are one of the things that's slowing everything down and I think there'd be a lot of flack if people thought we were offering redundancies (I already GOT this one! or even worse Did I already get this one or did I dream that part? or even worse: go to your "stash" after getting your Bonus Print and realizing I already GOT this one).

I've been emphasizing the OVERSIZED quality on the assumption that people are looking for "size as" or larger (and I've been thinking about including the dimensions of the original boards for people who want to be exact: this is what the original looks like and this is what size it is).

But there's really nothing to prevent you from printing ANY of the TCOP pieces at 11x17. The only real problem would be the proportions, so I'd suggest "mocking up" 11x17 on your computer screen and then experimenting with the reduction before taking it to Kinko's or wherever to get printed to see if you're going to be happy with how much of the image you're going to "get" and how much space is going to be left over.

Assuming Michael R is still storing his CAs and BONUS Prints in sheet protector portfolios, that would probably be his preferred way to go. Hi, Michael!

Dave Sim said...

Hi Tim W - Yes, it's going to be IMPOSSIBLE to tell if we have a consensus on what people want or a handful of "happy campers" and a bunch of "unhappy campers" until we get there and until we see what the comments and inevitable criticisms are.

It's very existential: TWO DAYS TWO HOURS AND FORTY-FIVE MINUTES TO GO!

My prayer time Friday is 7:41 pm so I won't really find out how the launch went until Saturday and I come to the Wifi place to check the COMMENTS section for my last Friday post.

I gave Sandeep a lot of free rein in developing TCOP because I'm USUALLY the worst person to pick what people are going to want AND we're always going to be in the "embarrassment of riches" category with the average CEREBUS fan. TCOP has been designed as EXTREMELY LOW MAINTENANCE (as in NO MAINTENANCE). Sandeep has "moved on" to prepping the READS text, I'm coming to the end (finally!) of my commentaries on "My Little Runaway" and we're both working on THE FRIDAY PROJECT (so named because we only work on it on Friday). Everything takes time, including retrieving art from storage, scanning it, prepping it and posting it.

Sandeep Atwal said...

lol...Dave, I told you we should've included The First Fifth!

This is really a test of sorts....here are a bunch of images available as hi-resolution digital files. (Since actually printing and mailing these as physical prints is a logistical nightmare and prohibitively expensive, it simply isn't an option.) If the project is a "success" (relatively speaking) then we can start looking at taking requests and including more images. Win-win!

The key thing to note is that this is a low-cost way to get as-close-as-possible to original artwork or posters of your favourite images as you're ever likely to see. You almost certainly won't see any of these available as mail-order posters or prints (outside of Kickstarter) so if you do want them, this is the way to get them. There was a very positive reaction to the picture of Dave holding up the cover of 187 as a poster, so if you want one of those, this is the way to get it. Hope it works!

Dave Sim said...

Supplementary to Tim W: THE ART OF DAVE SIM is a whole other can of worms. The REVOLT 3000 and PHANTACEA original covers are both oversized pieces, but I tend to err on the side of "All they want is CEREBUS". If Paul McCartney suddenly had to raise some funds, BEATLES material is always going to be of more interest than WINGS material.

If enough people are thinking of going the "al roney route" -- 11x17 -- all of the glamourpuss pages and SDOAR pages (except for 3 double page spreads) are 11x17.

TCOP "will do what it's going to do" and we'll all get to see it in Real Time. I think we should know inside of a week if it's something we revisit and just let it chug along on its own as a finished construct.

It would help, I think, if everyone following this could e-mail 2 or 3 comics friends (i.e. not necessarily CEREBUS fans but not necessarily CEREBUS haters: your local store owner?) and ask them to "tune in" on Friday at 7 pm. Even ordering ONE IMAGE is going to help the cause which is to REALLY RAMP UP the scanning and not have to worry if the funds are there (or "how much is left over after John Funk gets paid?" and the ancillary variable: "When does John get done?")

TWO DAYS TWO HOURS AND THIRTY MINUTES TO GO!

George Peter Gatsis said...

I'm with TIM thoughts...

Unique pieces that haven't seen the light of day is interesting...

Artwork that can easily pass as posters to be framed on the wall...

Original page scans without any editing or color correcting...

Hopefully people dig this concept and it grows over time... acting as a TRUE digital archive and a revenue generator.

George

mike r said...

Hi Dave,

If I can get the digital image printed (11X17)to fit the Itoya Art Profolio then it's going to be a no brainer for me. That's how I'm going to roll. Do you know how many digital images are going to be available? Are they going to be available all at once? I might get a separate portfolio just for this TCOP.

Could you or John Funk tell me what kind of paper was/is being used for the CAN's? I like the thickness of the paper used for the prints. The commentary pages that were used in CAN1 were a bit too thin. I really don't want to experiment with different kinds of paper til I find one I like and affordable.

Michael Ragiel

al roney said...

@Dave - Don't get me wrong, I personally want to print out most of the larger works BIG...(or at least as big as their original size).

I was commenting more about the 2-page spread from Jaka's Story (Cerebus 130 6 - 7), or any other 2-pagers that may be offered. Those story pages just don't interest me as much as some other stuff that is/may/hopefully be part of TCOP.

It also wouldn't bother me if those 2-pager story pages were offered as BP's, but I totally get that TCOP pieces are a different deal.

Honestly, I'm THRILLED with the whole TCOP undertaking. Kudos to you and Sandeep for moving forward on it!

The paycheck is cashed and I can't wait 'till Friday!

Barry Deutsch said...

For what it's worth, I'd definitely be interested in story pages. I'm not sure if this particular two-page spread is what I'd want to buy - it's an amazing piece, but I think I might find it depressing to see every day on my wall - poor Pud! - but there are certainly many Cerebus pages I'd love to be able to print out in large format.

Barry Deutsch said...

To clarify: I'm not saying "only do story pages." I'm saying "I think your decision to do a variety of pieces is very wise."

Anonymous said...

All I'd ask is that you please don't do story pages from scans sent in through the art dragnet. People have spent a lot of money in some cases on purchasing original art and were kind enough to go to the trouble of scanning it for you and sending in scans in order to help keep a beautiful published edition of Cerebus available.

I'm sure they wouldn't appreciate having those same scans used to produce prints of the art they invested in which might damage their investment.

Barry Deutsch said...

I disagree, anonymous.

First of all, genuine original art is always going to be much more valuable then any reproduction, no matter how high-res the reproduction is. So I don't think the "investment" argument holds water.

Second of all, selling original artwork is not a work-for-hire agreement. The artist retains not just the legal right, but the moral right to reproduce and distribute the artwork in any form he wants.

If you buy an original, then that's what you get - the original piece of artwork. And that's awesome and wonderful, and I'm really proud and pleased by the originals I have on my wall. But it doesn't come with a moral right to veto the artist wanting to distribute high-resolution reproductions. To suggest that it does is wrong, and reduces artists' rights in a way we shouldn't want.

And if people are kind enough to share scans for the Cerebus reprint project, that's really decent behavior of them, and good. But it still doesn't mean they have a moral right to demand that the works not be reproduced, or reproduced only in forms they approve of.

Jeff Seiler said...

I agree, Barry. Well said. And, Anon, please reread the guideline just above the comment box. If you don't want people to know who you are, then you shouldn't be commenting like you did just above. IMHO.

Greg Kessler said...

I would have to agree with anonymous on this one. I've probably contributed (directly or indirectly) more original art to the restoration project than any other collector. Included in that are a few pieces that I paid a tremendously high amount for.

I then spent my time and my money in getting high-resolution scans made and provided them under the assumption that they would be used for new editions of the books.

I'm not certain how having large scans of those pages would affect the value of my pages, but I'm not enthusiastic about finding out. Legally, absolutely Dave has every right to do so if he wants to, but I would repeat anonymous's plea that he doesn't. If I'd seen that as a realistic possibility, I would have been much less likely to provide the scans and would also likely not contribute scans of any future purchases.

Dave Sim said...

Greg & Anonymous & Barry & Jeff - There are different viewpoints held in good conscience on the original art question. We've attempted to respect those original art owners who are in the "MINE!" category when this became an issue over the TRAUMA ONE pages. But, I do see the onus as being on the owners to let us know since the vast majority of art owners tend to agree that I can do what I want with my work.

It would be a waste of time and money, I think, to sort it out in a court of law when it's easier just to say "Okay, what do YOU want to have happen?" Or, in this case, NOT happen and then try to accommodate that.

I would ask anyone who DOES see themselves as being in that category to make sure that Sean and Sandeep both have a complete list of "YOUR" pages. Hopefully with two pairs of eyes watching, we can avoid making any mistakes at the launch or make sure anything is taken down that shouldn't be there as soon as possible...AND to avoid anything being done with them in the future.

Dave Sim said...

michael r - Hi Michael! I'm not sure that they would be using the same paper supplier in PA that they would be here in Ontario. My suggestion would be to take one of the prints with you to the copy place you use and ask them to match it as closely to whatever they use.

If I recall correctly it's an 80-pound (80#) card stock glossy on one side. That will give them a ballpark and I'm sure they'll be glad to show you everything they've got in that vicinity.

Greg Kessler said...

Dave,

Thanks for the response. That makes a lot of sense. I don't think there would be much to sort out in a court of law -- seems pretty clear to me that the work is yours and if you wanted to publish them in such a manner, you most assuredly could. All I mean to express is that my hope and preference would be that you didn't. You seem to be on board with that, so it seems like everyone can ultimately be happy in the end.

Dave Sim said...

George Gatsis - Yes, we're definitely trying to keep our "eyes on the ball" when it comes to the idea of allowing as many people as possible to build their own VIRTUAL Cerebus Archive. The sheer volume of material makes it a daunting task, but "The journey of a thousand miles..."