Saturday, 2 November 2019

A visit to THAT bit...

Hi, Everybody!

So the other day on Margaret's post, Jeff commented:
Brilliant (!) issue, especially the cover. 
And, BTW, Astoria was *never* a victim.

Even though she was chained up (which she may have enjoyed), she was in charge all of the time.

Including when The Pope "raped" her, after she artfully placed her lacy panties on his head and (just guessing here) gave him a waft of her estrus.

Just sayin'.
And Birdsong replied:
Cerebus changed the conditions of the arrangement halfway through. Sure, she offered him what she had to trade, but he was supposed to let her go afterwards. Instead he gagged her, married her and raped her. I would say "married" her, but he was the pope so it was a real marriage for a few minutes. As the Spiritual and Political leader of the majority of the known world there was no authority to punish him for this action.
Dave did say quite plainly that Cerebus raped Astoria. Astoria herself said later that she goaded Cerebus into raping her hoping to become pregnant with an Aardvark (if I recall correctly).
Well, there are A LOT of assumptions stated here, let's look at the bit, and see if anybody is, well, wrong:

Okay, out of the gate, Birdsong is wrong. He said: "Cerebus changed the conditions of the arrangement halfway through. Sure, she offered him what she had to trade, but he was supposed to let her go afterwards." That wasn't the deal. The deal was Astoria does Cerebus a favor, then she'll ask him to do her a favor.

That seems like a "Quid Pro Quo"

Okay, this seems like goading. But let's wait til it's over.


Okay, that's a thought balloon. Which means we're reading Astoria's thoughts. And "ACK! STOP IT!" doesn't seem like a consensual thought to me.


More inner monologue. Still nothing that seems like consent.


"I'VE NEVER BEEN...SO...HUMILIATED...IN MY LIFE" Yeah, she's into this...(sarcasm.)


Yeah...I'ma gonna have to call bull$#!+ on the idea that Astoria WASN'T raped.


So, as we've just seen, Cerebus raped Astoria.

Now, I suggest, that Cerebus did indeed rape Astoria. (And I think anybody that's read the above will agree with me.)

BUT, I also suggest that afterward, Astoria invented the "trying to get pregnant" story to cope with being raped.

Like most good lies, I think her story had a kernel of truth.

(Which is a good place to remind everybody, that Dave will be calling me on Thursday for November's Please Hold For Dave Sim, so get your questions in to )

Next Time: That kernel of truth...


Jeff Seiler said...

Okay. "She was asking for it." is no defense.


Astoria was the grand manipulator of Cerebus, to advance her ... career?

No, her cause. Her agenda against Cirin.

She had next to no interest in Cerebus, sexually, except for how he could advance her Kevillist cause. Seducing him, trying to get him to impregnant her with an aardvark baby would, most definitely advance her cause.

Also the scene with Astoria stripping her panty down to her foot and her artfully placing it on Cerebus' head, while giving him a look at his "acquired taste", was a callback to his first encounter with Jaka, IIRC. Except for the up-close look/taste. Jaka, sad to say, was waaay classier than was Astoria. I mean, just look at the source material for Astoria.

Layers upon layers, upon layers.

Induced, purposefully designed seduction. It was not a rape. In my humble and psychologically-trained opinion. Have at me, Feminists.

I would say, "Have fun," but we all know that that goes without saying. Don't we, girls?

Jeff Seiler said...

Matt? Please ask Dave whether I'm wrong her. I mean, I pretty much got most of this from him.

Jeff Seiler said...

Heh. Freudian slip.

"here" is what I tried to write.

Jeff Seiler said...

Okay, Feminist Dave may have said and *may* have tried to draw and have written about Astoria being "raped."

But, that doesn't change the fact that she was manipulating Cerebus.

Unless, you know, she was just a "party" girl.

I think that Dave once wrote about writing and drawing her retiring to a sanctvary in order to make it up to the character for his having made her such a bad person.

Not that Cerebus didn't deserve it.

Jeff Seiler said...

Astoria, the character upon whom Dave based her, was a *horrible* personage.

Eddie said...

Dave talked about it in-depth a few years ago here. Not sure if answers your questions Jeff

Birdsong said...

I don't think it takes a lot to assume Astoria was going ask for her release. That would have been the easiest solution for both of them. Cerebus was in a hell of jam and he did get out of it by ascending, but I don't think anyone saw that coming.

Jeff said...

Also, as Astoria was goading Cerebus on, sexually, she was goading him on to marry (or, "marry") her, which he did.

Why would she try to get him to "marry" (or, Marry) her, unless she had a plan?

Either, (a) she was just trying to humiliate him; or (b) she didn't think he would do it (unlikely, although, as someone else pointed out, they may have never had sex up to that point); or, she was tempting him juuuust enough, she thought, to get released; or, she was seeking to get him to impregnate her with an aardvark baby.

In any case, manipulation. Rape? Maybe, but I call bullshit. She knew what she was doing, and she got it done.

Damian T. Lloyd, Esq. said...

Yes, Jeff S. is professionally trained -- with two degrees from god-botherers and one he awarded himself. We can of course rely on his informed and unprejudiced analysis.

-- Damian

Tony Dunlop said...

Your Seiler Derangement Syndrome is showing again. You deep state dupe.

Jeff said...

Thank you, Tony. Dip, er, Damian, my degree from a religious university was not from a God-bothering institution, but, instead from a university that has almost annually ranked as one of the best private liberal-arts universities in the country, according to U.S. News' rankings. My other, higher degree, is from a secular, state university.

When you speak (er, write) out of your ass, Dame, please try to do your research first.

Damian T. Lloyd, Esq. said...

And which one of your degrees, Jeff, is the one that you admit you didn't qualify for but awarded yourself anyway? If you really knew your subject, you would know not to diagnose someone without examining them.

-- Damian