Saturday, 8 April 2017

"2001"? "Signatures"?

I got a fax from Sean R Thursday April 6 date-stamped 3:39 PM EDT telling me that there were 2,001 signatures on the petition (thanks, Sean).

iPetitions shut down the petition without notifying Margaret last time right after I had (foolishly) posted here with a "1,920 signatures on the Petition" headline.  When the petition was restored, there were 1,851 signatures with the "1,920 signatures on the Petition" headline prominent in the AMOC popular posts box.

Good one on me. No, seriously, well done: good blow to my credibility.  

Thus, my "anticipated fake news" headline this time.

Thanks to Alfonso Espinos (thanks, Alfonso!) and Leon Emmett (thanks, Leon!) of THE HAIRY TARANTULA for leaving phone messages this morning also notifying me that there were "2002"? "Signatures"? at this point.

Alfonso:  In answer to your phone message: In the VERY unlikely event that the signatures actually "stick" this time, I'll repeat where we are in the "possible future appearances" end of things:

1) The STAN LEE model holds. What a convention would do for Stan Lee or George Lucas or William Shatner for "security of person" popularity reasons would have to be done for me for "Not Micro-aggressioning Feminist Safe Spaces" reasons.

2) The convention would have to tell me how they do that (if they have previously hosted someone in the "security of person" popularity category) or how they propose to do that (if they haven't previously hosted someone in the "security of person" popularity category) and I'll see if it seems sufficiently "Feminist Safe Spaces" airtight or what I would need to see improved to avoid ANY possible "Micro-Aggression" on my part.

3) This would have to include prominent signage (size to be determined) indicating at the entrance to the area where I am signing "TRIGGER WARNING: DAVE SIM APPEARANCE" and 'TRIGGER WARNING: THIS IS NOT A FEMINIST SAFE SPACE" and admission would be dependent on a "Miranda warning"-style verbal acknowledgement that the person seeking admission understands the warning and that they acknowledge that they have read it.

4) We would arrange some kind of after hours get-together for people who have signed the petition and there would have to be someone assigned by the convention to check the petition for signatures at the door.  If the person's signature has been "made to not exist" (and not uncommon occurrence)  presumably they will be able to sign the petition at the door if they have a cellphone with Internet access.  As soon as their signature appears, they would be admitted.

The "2002" "signatures" are not a vote of confidence.  We live in a Feminist Theocracy which I acknowledge and which I am doing everything in my power to keep from violating.

I would strongly advise NO convention to invite me.  In a Feminist Theocracy, whatever you would spend would be a waste of money.

But, in acknowledgement of the "2002" "signatures" this is the best I can do in meeting you halfway if you are (for whatever reason) still interested in having me as a guest.  And the "2002" "signatures" are still there in the future.


Erick said...

You forgot to mention the armor plated limo stocked with M&M's but minus the green ones. And ten cans of Sprite.

Steve said...

I think, more than anything, Dave would find that the Good Ship Cerebus has sailed off into the sunset.

And consequently there wouldn't be too many people of any particular stripe visiting his table.

It seems reasonable to me to believe that Cerebus sailed off not due to Marxist / feminist / theocracy issues, but the series ended decades ago, after a long and lingering decline.

Comic fans are a generation or two past Cerebus now, and the vast majority don't care about the series, why it's significant, and why it and Dave are ... subject to scrutiny from some quarters.

The great majority of today's con attendees have no more interest in Neal Adams, as an example, than in Dave Sim. To most of the fans, it's a name attached (at best) to a vague idea of comics done 'back then'.

And given the contract clauses Dave is indicating in his post here, and that a con organizer has to weigh cost vs. return on investment for any paid guest, it'd be a difficult situation to warrant scheduling his attendance.

Stan Lee and a small group of other guests are in a rarefied field of importance within the comic / media con circuit. Dave doesn't fit that bill.

And really, posting signs with "Not a feminist safe space" is little more than looking for trouble. Most people don't know who Dave is, don't care what his views are, and would walk right on past his table.

That said, I'd sure be there with plenty of stuff to sign, some stuff to send off to CGC, typical fan things to do. And I'd certainly introduce him to my family, and if he's up to it, have him over for a home cooked New Mexican meal.

Because I believe Dave is a gentlemen when shown the civility and courtesy any of us would want to receive.


John Melman said...

Seriously... who didn't see this coming?

Margaret said...

In case anyone is wondering, I had to cull more names from the petition. People are signing with their first name only. At one point I could lock it so they had to give certain information, but iPetitions changed their website so many times, and now it doesn't lock it like it used to. If there is only a first name, or an initial for the first name, i.e. "John" or "J. Smith", I will delete those signatures.

Dave has requested people use their full first and last name, and if those are not both of the 'signature', then that 'signature' will be deleted. I used to be able to contact people via email, but since the website doesn't force them to put that down either, I can no longer do that.

So currently it sits at 1,997 signatures. Please sign full first and last name so I don't have to give this kind of news. Thanks.

Damian T. Lloyd, Esq. said...

So what Dave is saying is that he won't be making any convention appearances. Too bad; I'd love to see him on a panel discussing "Great Photo-Realist Comics Artists" or something.

But "The Stan Lee model holds." Huh: Stan Lee, George Lucas, William Shatner, Dave Sim. One of these things is not like the other. Dave, you're not that big a star. As Steve said, "Stan Lee and a small group of other guests are in a rarefied field of importance within the comic / media con circuit. Dave doesn't fit that bill."

And that's fine. Dave has secured a place in comics history, and if it's a more minor place than he feels he deserves -- well, them's the breaks, kid. Demanding first-class-star treatment is unlikely to play well.

If Dave wants to arrange some kind of after-hours get together, that would seem to be his business. Why is it the convention's duty?

"Feminist theocracy" is still good for a grin, though.

-- Damian

Dave Kopperman said...

Only thing I'd point out is that the whole messaging with 'micro-aggressions' and 'safe spaces' doesn't apply to conventions, unless the convention happens to be taking place on a college campus. And far from driving down traffic to Dave's table, it would make for a pretty canny bit of anti-marketing (in the spirit of people going out of their way to check something out that they know would irk them, much in the way I approach message boards).

That having been said, well, it's pretty clear that Dave doesn't really want to do a convention ever again, so maybe we should just leave it at that. Too much difficulty in getting him there on the part of the organizer, too much of a compromise of Dave's principles to change any of his demands.

Jeff Seiler said...

I don't think that Dave is conflating himself with Lieberman, Lucas, or Shatner by demanding (asking?) for some level of protection to be provided by any particular convention.
I think, but don't know, that most established convention organizers do their level best to accommodate the needs of their vendors. Certainly, at least, the "name" ones. And, I do believe that Dave is still a "name" one.

Asking for a set-aside room for an after-show get-together, with security, is a wee bit over the top. Whatever happened to going to a Sausage Haus-type place and standing out front for an hour and a half with your most dedicated supporters (readers), while waiting to be seated, talking about Cerebus? Except, now, talking about SDOAR?

Does Dave want to ever appear at a con again? Hmm. I'm six years younger than him and I absolutely abhor travel (except by train). Being there is fun--getting there and back is awful. So, if we never see him again, I can't blame him.

But, I'm betting we will see that old contrarian again. C'mon Dave, do it again! If only for us old SPACERs!

Just get the local organizer to recommend a good vegan/meat combo restaurant in whatever city, and Bob's yer uncle.

Jeff Seiler said...

I'll pay for the taxi rides.

Anonymous said...

I liked it better when all we had to do was slip a sheet of paper under his hand, yell, "TREE SKETCH," take it back once he's done, and go on our merry way.

Stan Lee and Bill Shatner sell their autographs, which is why interaction is minimal. They want to maximize revenue.

What does Dave (What do you, Dave) want to do?

Do you want to spend time with fans for the sake of spending time with fans? If so, do whatever feels comfortable to you, whether that means something close to home (like an event in Kitchener) or an appearance at a store or convention. It seemed like SPACE offered a consistently enjoyable experience for all involved.

Are you looking to drive sales through public appearances? If so, I remember you questioning the cost in terms of time and money. Have situations changed? Is it now worth the expense?

Is signing going to be damaging to your hand?

If fans want to ask questions or hang out while you're at the con, what would you do?

For the fellow fans reading this: I was fortunate enough to see Dave at three signings. Every time, it was fun for me, but he always looked like he wanted to go home.

I'd greatly enjoy hanging out with him again, but given the distinct lack of enthusiasm on his part in his post, I'd just as soon consider my name on the petition to be a simple statement of appreciation and respect, rather than a contract that expects him to pay me back by coming to a convention in Washington state and autographing my stuff.

If he is going to feel put out, I'd much rather he stay home and do what gives him fulfillment.

--Claude Flowers

Erick said...

Jeff, his last name is Lieber, not Liberman

Damian T. Lloyd, Esq. said...

Claude F.: I think you've hit the nail on the head in asking Dave, "What do you want to do?" We want Dave to go to conventions and talk about comics and sign our comics. Dave wants to sit alone in his room and read the Bible over and over and pray, but he sees a duty of obligation to Cerebus the work to be its chief archivist and cheerleader.

That implies that he will undertake certain duties in preserving and promoting Cerebus. And he has an interest also in promoting SDoAR and building interest and anticipation for that. Does that include things like convention appearances? Under what circumstances?

I can't agree with Jeff S. that Dave is still a "name". To the extent that he is, his name is mud. He's not a draw for attendance, the way Mr. Presents or The Shat are. If he demands the same first-class treatment they get, he'll just look like Nora Desmond. Nobody's going to attack him, so he doesn't need security guards.

If Dave wants to do something useful with a convention appearance, he might sit on a panel -- or create his own presentation -- on the great photo-realist comics artists. That's an under-appreciated aspect in the current cartooning audience, and is interesting on its own terms; there's a lot of fans out there right now who appreciate art that they don't know the lineage of. And it would be self-serving as well: creating interest in a style that SDoAR is about. With all his research, his recreations, his microscopic examinations of Raymond's of Caniff's brush-strokes ... What fan of cartooning wou0ldn't want to attend such a presentation?

So maybe Dave should think of convention appearances more actively -- not a passive autograph machine, but an active and engaging presenter.

-- Damian

Jeff Seiler said...

Well, for once, I actually agree with what Damian had to say. The latter part anyway. I think Dave doing a presentation on photorealistic cartooning would be a huge draw. I'd even pay for it.

Erick, I meant Lieberman as in Spiderman.

Kirk Nachman said...

what can we say of Dave Sim? A wonderfully splenetic thinker-satirist undone by his own gristmill? The most sophisticated and profuse of independent comic makers whose art is often displaced by digressive textual screeds? An authority on Islam and women? (haw haw) I'm no Cerebus scholar. I cherry-pick the periods in its great unfurling that appeal to me most, and I love the development of his cartooning style. The division of labor he arranged with Gerhard to bring an imperial engravers aesthetic as backdrop to his clean figuration which have the emphasis and economy of the golden age of animation. the last time i bought an issue of Cerebus off the rack was probably 1989... so what do I know?

Back in 1981, it must have been, my brother labored over a pencil sketch of the aardvark and brought it down to Mile High Comics in Boulder for a visiting young Sim to sign. Dave was still looking like a hippy, before he fashioned his cokey 80's look of white sport jackets and gaping chest v-neck t-shirts. He was friendly and supportive. My brother wrote a caption which read: "Cerebus knows the likeness is terrible, Just Sign!" Dave, bless 'im, drew a little Cerebus in the corner with the note "It's not that bad." Good days. Dave's a giant.