Monday 5 January 2015

RESTORATION BULLETIN -- GOAT Redesign continued

Sean Michael Robinson:

Greetings everyone!

Last week Dave wrote that he's entertaining suggestions for potential redesigns for the "Goat" section of High Society. As I mentioned last week, the section is a bit clunky as-is, owing to the fact that it originally ran as a "Unique Story" back-up feature in the monthly book, and originally consisted of double page spreads, which were subsequently chopped up for the High Society collected edition.

I asked for those inclined to post potential mock-ups, and we've received two so far! First off is one from Scott Yoshinaga, of the adorable webcomic nemu nemu, who says the following--

Here's my quick take on GOAT. Not sure if it's OK to move the text around but I felt if the actual page was going to be on the right side of the book, there should be some context. Also got rid of the Unique Story logo entirely although I tried to play around with it in conjunction with the GOAT heading but it looked out of place. Maybe a small text that says "A short aside." or something under the GOAT heading would work.








And version number two is by Tom Palmer Jr, who has the following to say--

Is it possible to expand Goat to 6 pages? If so, here's a way to redesign the story so that the original spreads remain intact:

(The new page 1 is the original title lettering with a bit of the smoke enlarged and bleeding off the bottom of the page.
New pages 2 and 3 are the original first spread, but with the title lettering and Unique Story banner removed. I cloned the smoke so that it now rises up off the top of the page.
New pages 4 and 5 are the original second spread, except the final two "transcript copy..." lines have been removed as well as the figures of Julius and the goat.

And new page 6 is the two "transcript" lines from the original last page with the figures of Julius and the goat at the bottom of the page.) 

UPDATE: Tom revised these some and sent a new version, which is now posted below. Here's what he had to say about the new version--

Wow! Thanks for pulling my and Scott's layouts into their own post. Didn't expect that at all.

Now that the layout is out there on the big stage, I'm actually a little embarrassed by the quick Photoshop roughs I made. I knew I should have spent a few more minutes with it! Here's a revised version that I took a little more time with:
.....

I made a few tweaks to the layout to fix some concerns I had and to address a few of the comments that have popped up here. Aside from tightening up the layout, I added in page numbers as well as the facing pages from the previous and next chapters so it's easier to see what it will look like when placed into the book. 


Like M Kitchen and Eddie, I can see how that new first page is a bit sparse when seen in context next to the last page of the previous issue. So, I worked up another version of the first page with a quick "High Society Interlude" banner along the top (since I think the old "A Unique Story" doesn't really convey how "Goat" fits into the novel.)









To answer your question, Tom-- yes, we can definitely spare two pages from the back matter, if need be.

Thanks for the great layouts, both of you! They both punctuate the chapter in very interesting and different ways, and I think both have significant advantages over the current layout. If anyone else reading this wants to take a crack at it, post a link to your files in the comments and I'll add them to the post. I'm hoping to get feedback from readers on the ones so far, and on Friday Dave will take a look and possibly make a final determination.

(Am I wrong in thinking this might be the first crowd-sourced book layout project??)


18 comments:

Scott Yoshinaga said...

Yay! Thanks for including my layout for consideration. BTW, my last name is Yoshinaga, but I'll take Yoshinada as close enough. LOL

Sean R said...

Aargh.... sorry Scott! Please accept my embarrassed apology. Fixing it now...

Love your comic by the way! Am I wrong in seeing a Yotsuba influence?

Anonymous said...

I like Tom Palmer's solution.

- Reginald P.

Scott Yoshinaga said...

Hi Sean!
Yes, at the very beginning of the comic we both were very much influenced by Azuma's Yotsuba&! and Azumanga Daioh. Over the years, the we tried a lot of different things and Audra really grew as an artist.

It's interesting how the pups went through a "Cerebus" evolution of sorts. They look very different now compared to the early inks only comics.

Paul Slade said...

"I like Tom Palmer's solution."

Seconded. Restoring that double-page spread should be the priority here.

M Kitchen said...

Agree with getting the double page spread back.

My only suggestion would be to keep A UNIQUE STORY as a "Marvel Comics Group" design element at the top of page one. Which would really make it look like a proper title page.

Sean R said...

Devil's advocate here. Doesn't adding two essentially content-free pages here inflate the importance of what's essentially a four-page vignette? Is the spread returning worth that imbalance? I think a good argument could be made that Scott's layout is the funniest, parceling out, as it does, some of the comedy over the page turn.

Scott Yoshinaga said...

When I did the mock up for GOAT, I had in mind that Dave might want to limit the amount of extra pages put into the book. I have no idea if that was the case or not though.

Having designed/produced books in the past, I realize extra pages add cost, sometimes significantly depending on the quantity you order. It really sucks when you have a two page spread and it begins on the right page and you have to decide if it's worth the extra cost to keep it. I guess in the end, Dave will decide.

Jeff Seiler said...

I think Tom's is just slightly better, because of the spreads and putting the last joke on it's own page, with LJ sauntering off, as if to say, "well, my work here is done...".

Anonymous said...

Considering that High Society is 512 pages, the extra two pages represent a 0.4 percent increase in the book. I don't think that is significant. I think it still comes off as a vignette.

- Reginald P.

Eddie said...

"To Goat, or Not To Goat.."

I like the double spread back, but I'm not sure about the first page as is, especially when reading it in a trade format (it might be too sparse a page). If these were the final two choices, I prefer Scott's, but in the interests of the democratic process, will yield to the majority vote. Or if someone makes me an offer. Bribe that is, son.

Travis Pelkie said...

What about using Scott's, but making it 2 2page spreads? That's the only thing I'm not crazy about with his version, is that it splits up what is one continuous drawing into 2 different pages. (Or is that how it appeared in whatever issue it was first in?) The only thing with Tom's that I'm not crazy about is that it spreads the whole thing out a bit too long. Both are decent, though, and I think the comedy comes through with both.

And is that the Tom Palmer Jr who was the Wizard indie columnist (and last I knew, a DC editor), and of course son of the wonderful inker? Man, that indie column in Wizard was great. Probably where I first encountered Ted McKeever, and plenty of other stuff. Hi Tom!

Sean R said...

Hey Travis,

When it first appeared, it was in the rear of Cerebus 40 (?) and the pages were aligned as you see in Tom's example. But in the trade collection, all of the monthly issues start on recto (right-sided) pages, so this needed to as well in order to fit in and not have extra pages. The debate now is whether it's worth an outlay of two pages to correct the orientation, or whether Scott's solution suffices. (Scott's, imho, is certainly better than the previous layout)

Tom Palmer Jr said...

Hey Sean!

Wow! Thanks for pulling my and Scott's layouts into their own post. Didn't expect that at all.

Now that the layout is out there on the big stage, I'm actually a little embarrassed by the quick Photoshop roughs I made. I knew I should have spent a few more minutes with it! Here's a revised version that I took a little more time with:

https://www.dropbox.com/s/yhqk758j8wbbtpl/cerebus_goat.zip?dl=0

Would you be able to drop in these new versions instead?

I made a few tweaks to the layout to fix some concerns I had and to address a few of the comments that have popped up here. Aside from tightening up the layout, I added in page numbers as well as the facing pages from the previous and next chapters so it's easier to see what it will look like when placed into the book.

Like M Kitchen and Eddie, I can see how that new first page is a bit sparse when seen in context next to the last page of the previous issue. So, I worked up another version of the first page with a quick "High Society Interlude" banner along the top (since I think the old "A Unique Story" doesn't really convey how "Goat" fits into the novel.)

And, yes, Travis, that is me. Hi!

Sean R said...

Hey Tom,

Thanks for the update, and for all of your work! I'll be very curious to see what Dave has to say about these :)

Really appreciate everyone's help here!

Tom Palmer Jr said...

Thanks Sean. I'm curious too!

The first time I read High Society was in the trade, so the layout of Goat never made sense to me until I saw it in the original format. It would be great if there's some way to fix it for this new printing.

Jeff Seiler said...

Okay, even more so, I vote for Tom's version.

IF (big if) Dave doesn't mind.

Kit said...

Tom's version looks fairly great, including the "interlude" header.