DAVE SIM:
As Jimmy Stewart used to say, "Well, whattayaknow about THAT?"
We've gone from averaging 50 signatures a YEAR to 50 signatures a MONTH! If this pace keeps up, I'll have to decide whether to go out in public again TWO YEARS from now instead of TWELVE YEARS from now. I'm not sure I can THINK that fast at my age! :)
Anyway, thanks to everyone who's getting serious about this eight years later.
15 comments:
Names don't drop off the petition, so it's inevitable that 2,000 people will sign eventually. Over one-third of the way there so far. Can someone please remind me of the date the petition was established?
How much of this bump is attributable to the recent comics giveaway? If that's a significant factor, it suggests that a loss-leader approach may help creators attract attention -- and, even further, inspire action.
(For what it's worth, my assessment of Dave's writing -- both within and outside Cerebus -- is that he is a misogynist. However, if he chooses to go out in public or not, that's his business, not mine.)
-- Damian
The petition was started May 3rd, 2008. Names occasionally drop off - if I find someone that doesn't put their full name, that will be removed.
Pretty sure this is due mostly to Alfonso Espinosa's efforts. He has a laptop at his table at all the comic-cons he goes to—which is basically all of them—and talks to people about the issue. I think it's a lot easier to talk to people about these issues than it was 20 years ago. People on youtube, for example Thunderf00t and Sargon of Akkad, have hundreds of thousands of subscribers and get tens of thousands of views for their videos which are very critical of feminism in general, and there are lots of people who agree with them. Here's to 2,000 people being able to figure out that being opposed to feminism doesn't mean you hate women. Of course, some people will never be able to figure that out.
Thank you, Margaret and Sandeep, for answering my questions.
Does anyone know (or care to guess at) factors that spurred other increases in signatures on the petition? Signing an online petition is slightly more active than clicking "Like" on a Facebook post, and knowing what creators can do to motivate people to take what passes for action these days might help others planning their own promotional campaigns.
Sandeep veers from reality a bit in the second half of his comment, as is his wont (he learned at the feet of his hero, after all). It can be hard to tell when Sandeep is being actively dishonest from when he's just misunderstanding the subject, but it is certainly true that being opposed to feminism doesn't mean you hate women. Unfortunately, he wants us to think that this description applies to Dave Sim, when Dave's own words go beyond the former and unequivocally into the latter. I'm also not sure why he thinks that YouTube SupaStahs like Phil Mason and Carl Benjamin, with their weird fixation on Anita Sarkeesian, equates to a burgeoning anti-feminist movement. YouTube vloggers? Really? That's the best you've got?
-- Damian
@Sandeep
When Dave equates giving women the right to vote is the same as franchising cats there's something more going on than merely opposing radical feminism.
I think the reasons suggested (bringing a laptop to conventions, having YouTube advocates, and also the existence of this very site we are on) simply show that an independent creator needs to understand and embrace technology and the Internet. I realize that sounds obvious.
I agree with Damian and Glen; pretending that the sole reason people think Dave is misogynistic is that he's an anti-feminist is a ridiculous strawman argument.
Incidentally, I wrote a lengthy rebuttal to Sandeep on this subject a while ago. (Sandeep never responded, which is fine; he doesn't have to respond if he doesn't want to.)
I'm tempted to start a 'I don't care about Dave Sim's personal beliefs, I think he's a comic genius and I'd love to meet him and shake his hand' petition
I have met him and shook his hand…it's every bit as pleasant an experience as "they" say. It's a shame he's decided to deprive people of it for now.
Surely if Dave hated women he would be proposing their internment in concentration camps, or proposing a cull to reduce the number of females to 10% of the world population, or simply shrieking in demented admiration of some awful sexual mutilation of a woman in the same way that women who might reasonably be presumed to hate men do, but with the opposite gender in the role of victim. The fact that he doesn't, and instead deploys his devastating wit and polemic to amusing effect and my personal, eternal gratitude, reassures me that there is, in fact, nothing "more going on here" and that Dave and his fellow dissenters possess far more tact and general decency, not to mention goodwill towards others, than their opponents who's posts on Moment of Cerebus consist of snide condescension, name-calling and attempted character assassination. Go team!
Well, Mr. Sensitive, "Fruitcake Park" was a concentration camp for women. I chose to read it as a humorous riposte to the infamous cartoon from The Comics Journal -- as I choose to read your comment as a lampoon, given your hopefully-sarcastic screen name.
-- Damian
More like a holiday camp, I would say. I don't think that life under the Cerebites was intended by Dave as a literal blueprint for a better society, anyway, Damian. I had, perhaps rashly, assumed it to be satirical.
You are, of course, free to interpret what you read however you like. Perhaps it will make it so.
And...
I blissfully remain Damian-criticism free.
Maybe when I get back to Minneapolis, where pretty much everything, but mostly Damian, pisses me off...
Jeff,
Have you ever thought about why Damian gets you all... emotional? You strike me as an intelligent guy, but maybe you have anger-management issues. In the immortal words of Taylor Swift... just "shake it off"!
Tim
Iestyn's view is very close to mine. I signed the petition. I don't agree with Dave's views on women at all, though I admire the eloquence in how he makes his arguments. But I also recognize that Dave doesn't hate women, and that labelling him with the M word doesn't do any damn good. And I'd love to meet Dave and shake his hand if he decides to come out into society. Ergo, I signed, and won't take it back.
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