I have a Cerebus question. I know, it's weird for this site.
I was looking at the "Breakfast Whiskey" cover of Guys, with the little Lord Julius son, and realized- would he have survived the post-ascension destruction of Iest? IDidn't a lot of the pre-second-ascension characters died in the devestation? And if so, would bottlers have continued to use Lord Julius's likeness to peddle whiskey?
I may be thinking on this a wee bit too hard. Someone put me out of my misery. Who died after the Ascension? Do I need to reread the Guys and Rick's Story books to refresh my memory on who's alive?
Q2: How did Mrs. Thatcher survive the cataclysm that destroyed Iest? It occurred right after Cerebus and Cirin ascended, didn't it? She was in the upper city close to ground zero, as were Astoria and Seunteus Po. Did Astoria and Po die in the cataclysm?
Dave: I would imagine that Astoria and Suenteus Po died in the cataclysm. She might be a different Mrs. Thatcher along the same lines of the two or three Oscar Wildes in the story. You can pick whichever one makes you less uncomfortable: Mrs. Thatcher had a miraculous escape from the cataclysm or there’s more than one Mrs. Thatcher. I’ll back up your choice 100% whichever one it is.
That comment always threw me. The "I would imagine" bit...Astoria was a major, massive character for such a long time in Cerebus, and then...Dave didn't really know if she died? That just struck me for a long time. I get that, as Cerebus changed as Dave found his religious beliefs taking more of a role in his life, she wouldn't play a further role in the story, but the idea that he really just kicked her out of his head just always was strange.
I haven't been keeping up with all the Cerebus in Hell news- I wonder if Dave has thought about using clip art of the other characters in some of the jokes...
Hi Ray! Well, "never say never" but my own take on CEREBUS IN HELL? is that this is a foreshadowing of what life will be like in the hereafter after the hereafter and the worse you did while you were here -- or, in Cerebus' case, "here" -- the more limited your hereafter horizons are. Cerebus is now privy to his entire history and to the history of our world up to the 21st century, but it hasn't done him any good. He knows more but he's still his own worst enemy. My sense of that is best conveyed by limiting the "cast" to just Cerebus himself and limiting Cerebus to four basic attitudes: outraged facing right, outraged facing left, deadpan, accusation facing right and accusation facing left. He can still, potentially, become a better person with that limited range of attitudes but (SPOILER WARNING!) he doesn't. I can't think of any Cerebus character who was AS BAD as Cerebus so it doesn't make sense to include them in his afterlife on his level.
Ray! II - Well, I'm not God. I think God cares -- or, rather, Cares -- about every one of his creations. I don't think it's possible for a human creator to do so. Knowing for 20 years or so that there was going to be this massive Ground Zero Event that was going to destroy Iest and knowing that a good number of the cast were going to be there when it happened, that just becomes "baked in". My problem as a human creator is "Okay, how do I write the stories after that?" There's no point in thinking about Astoria beyond a certain point because Astoria is going to be gone. "What's Jaka like now?" "How did all of this affect Jaka?" moves closer to the front burner because we're going to start following Jaka and Cerebus around up ahead.
It's, I'm sure, very different for God. He knows from the time that the USA is founded that 9/11 is up ahead. Where it occurs and how it occurs is in flux, but I'm sure He's entirely aware when everyone is finally born who will die in the collapse of the Twin Towers: what their back story will be. Who will listen to Him -- and His angels -- when they tell them where and how to get out just in time. He knows that the Muslims flying the planes think that they're doing it for Him. He knows whose faith in Him will be confirmed and whose faith in Him will be destroyed by the event. God is Greatest, to me, is the only sensible reaction. Whatever happens, it is the best that He can make it, given the mess that we make of everything.
I don't really know enough about Astoria to know what she deserves or what she doesn't deserve. To me, she was her ideology. I can't picture what she would be like after she walked out of the Throne Room. I'm nowhere near omniscient even about my own characters.
Hey Ray. You might be subconsciously thinking of Dave's notes in "LATTER DAYS" (I'm pretty sure it was Latter Days) where he mentions he had thought of doing a vignette with Lord Julius and Baskin running around Palnu (which basically became a giant distillery) trying to bottle the booze. Can't remember where in the appendix it is off the top of my head.
8 comments:
Really looking forward to this; thanks
What unexpected news!
Thanks for thinking of me Dave!
-Benjamin Hobbs
I have a Cerebus question. I know, it's weird for this site.
I was looking at the "Breakfast Whiskey" cover of Guys, with the little Lord Julius son, and realized- would he have survived the post-ascension destruction of Iest? IDidn't a lot of the pre-second-ascension characters died in the devestation? And if so, would bottlers have continued to use Lord Julius's likeness to peddle whiskey?
I may be thinking on this a wee bit too hard. Someone put me out of my misery. Who died after the Ascension? Do I need to reread the Guys and Rick's Story books to refresh my memory on who's alive?
Ray - I'd think Lord Julius would've survived as he probably was in Palnu at the time. As for some of the other characters Dave answered that in 2005:
From his Q & A with the Cerebus Yahoo!Group:
Q2: How did Mrs. Thatcher survive the cataclysm that destroyed Iest? It occurred right after Cerebus and Cirin ascended, didn't it? She was in the upper city close to ground zero, as were Astoria and Seunteus Po. Did Astoria and Po die in the cataclysm?
Dave: I would imagine that Astoria and Suenteus Po died in the cataclysm. She might be a different Mrs. Thatcher along the same lines of the two or three Oscar Wildes in the story. You can pick whichever one makes you less uncomfortable: Mrs. Thatcher had a miraculous escape from the cataclysm or there’s more than one Mrs. Thatcher. I’ll back up your choice 100% whichever one it is.
That comment always threw me. The "I would imagine" bit...Astoria was a major, massive character for such a long time in Cerebus, and then...Dave didn't really know if she died? That just struck me for a long time. I get that, as Cerebus changed as Dave found his religious beliefs taking more of a role in his life, she wouldn't play a further role in the story, but the idea that he really just kicked her out of his head just always was strange.
I haven't been keeping up with all the Cerebus in Hell news- I wonder if Dave has thought about using clip art of the other characters in some of the jokes...
Hi Ray! Well, "never say never" but my own take on CEREBUS IN HELL? is that this is a foreshadowing of what life will be like in the hereafter after the hereafter and the worse you did while you were here -- or, in Cerebus' case, "here" -- the more limited your hereafter horizons are. Cerebus is now privy to his entire history and to the history of our world up to the 21st century, but it hasn't done him any good. He knows more but he's still his own worst enemy. My sense of that is best conveyed by limiting the "cast" to just Cerebus himself and limiting Cerebus to four basic attitudes: outraged facing right, outraged facing left, deadpan, accusation facing right and accusation facing left. He can still, potentially, become a better person with that limited range of attitudes but (SPOILER WARNING!) he doesn't. I can't think of any Cerebus character who was AS BAD as Cerebus so it doesn't make sense to include them in his afterlife on his level.
Ray! II - Well, I'm not God. I think God cares -- or, rather, Cares -- about every one of his creations. I don't think it's possible for a human creator to do so. Knowing for 20 years or so that there was going to be this massive Ground Zero Event that was going to destroy Iest and knowing that a good number of the cast were going to be there when it happened, that just becomes "baked in". My problem as a human creator is "Okay, how do I write the stories after that?" There's no point in thinking about Astoria beyond a certain point because Astoria is going to be gone. "What's Jaka like now?" "How did all of this affect Jaka?" moves closer to the front burner because we're going to start following Jaka and Cerebus around up ahead.
It's, I'm sure, very different for God. He knows from the time that the USA is founded that 9/11 is up ahead. Where it occurs and how it occurs is in flux, but I'm sure He's entirely aware when everyone is finally born who will die in the collapse of the Twin Towers: what their back story will be. Who will listen to Him -- and His angels -- when they tell them where and how to get out just in time. He knows that the Muslims flying the planes think that they're doing it for Him. He knows whose faith in Him will be confirmed and whose faith in Him will be destroyed by the event. God is Greatest, to me, is the only sensible reaction. Whatever happens, it is the best that He can make it, given the mess that we make of everything.
I don't really know enough about Astoria to know what she deserves or what she doesn't deserve. To me, she was her ideology. I can't picture what she would be like after she walked out of the Throne Room. I'm nowhere near omniscient even about my own characters.
Hey Ray. You might be subconsciously thinking of Dave's notes in "LATTER DAYS" (I'm pretty sure it was Latter Days) where he mentions he had thought of doing a vignette with Lord Julius and Baskin running around Palnu (which basically became a giant distillery) trying to bottle the booze. Can't remember where in the appendix it is off the top of my head.
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