Ah! I know, I'll let my new friend (and the most sensational character find of 2020): Hell-Oh! Spawnee do it...
GOD DAMN IT!
Mags, you keep asking for a raise...
Also: NOT IT!
...motherfucker...Hobbs, wanna help a brother out?
*sigh*
Hi, Everybody!
Okay, I faxed ALL the comments to Dave, and let's see if he responds before I get through all this...
I have made my frustration with Waverly Press well known, I think. It started with that "Oslo" card that I asked about being available elsewhere (rather than having to back the Idiegogo just for an extra card) and never heard back, resulting in an unnecessary purchase of four additonal copies of Cerebus #1 just to get it. Of course, they *were* available later on their own.Well, I'm sorry that...
Poor communication, opportunistic selling practices, all the worst aspects of the modern comics industry. Not really what I expect from 'Cerebus'-related projects.
Nope, sorry. This is supposed to be the "Rapho" post, where I (as I wrote in my notebook): "acknowledge the problems, provide answers where I can, and be supportive."
But I ain't "Rapho", and none of you are getting a new car. (Not sorry, Mags. I'm not sorry at all...)
And, frankly, when I read some of these comments, this happens:
Which sucks for a couple of youse. And should be a MAJOR relief for a couple of others...
The "good news" is Dave faxed me. And didn't say, "NOT IT!" (because he didn't know it was an option...)
(For a little context, here's something I sent in a Fax to Dave that I meant to post, but got "busy" and didn't:)
For my part (which I didn’t include in the post because I ran out of time before I had to do other things, but which I’m going to post in the comments, or update the post with,) I think that there were too many covers. Mind you, I bought the four basic cover set because I couldn’t pick the one cover I liked best, and Dagon had said he was going to send me one of everything for all my help (which he did, so with the two Halloween covers somebody bought me, I have all the covers except the 3D lenticular one.). Looking at a photo somebody posted to the Cerebus Facebook Group of ALL the covers (1993 Spawn #10 through 2021 Lenticular cover (which I describe quoting Robert Crumb: “I got dem 3-Dee delirium trimmings!”)), I think the Gold and Platinum sets could have been eliminated in this campaign and replaced with the EC knock-offs and the “Distressed” EC knock-offs (possibly with the SPAWN part of the logos in Gold and Platinum respectively, if that was possible…).
So, for Cerebus #s 2-10, and Turtles #8, I’d suggest that if there are going to be multiple covers, that the Gold and Platinum cover variants be eliminated. I get why they were there for Cerebus #1, same cover, different ink. But with Spawn #10, it was Full colour covers, then black and white with Gold highlights, then Different layouts (the EC parodies) with Platinum highlights. Then Full colour EC parodies, then “Distressed” EC parodies. Which was definitely overkill, in my opinion.
(I also get that a few of those sets were created “accidently” by the CiH? team and got made because they looked cool, and therefore not planned when this whole crazy ride started…)
And to make matters “worse”, Dagon sent me a set of un-numbered, untrimmed, over-print covers (I think he said that there were either 15 or 25 sets, and he sent most of them to the various members of Team Cerebus,) which I’m sorely tempted to trim to size and add to the guts of a Spawn #10, probably either my “Blank” cover, or my AP version of the Halloween Edition, and then I’ll have a copy of Spawn #10 with ALL the covers…
Which would be, on the one hand, Neat. And on the other hand, horrifying, since it would make all the other copies superfluous.
(Dagon should have done this and sold them as the “@#$% IT I DON’T CARE ANYMORE” Edition for a lot of money apiece…)
Welp, as Ollie said to Stan: “This is another fine mess you’ve gotten me into…” *insert smiley face here*
More as this develops…
Manly Matt Dow
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| Click for bigger Margaret... |
THANKS DAVE!
If you wanna comment to the Waverly Press, thewaverlypress@gmail.com.
_________________________
Well, this is awkward.
See, (if you didn't know) AMOC's comments section was laid siege by a little racist, homophobic, nazi piece of shit, and I've set the comments to be moderated. Which means all the comments get sent to me before they get posted. So far, the little asshole has only sent one more comment*, and it was right after I "locked it down" (thanks to Ben Hobbs for pointing out it was happening,) and I WAS gonna "unlock" the comments, so everybody could have a "rousing discussion" of the issues of the day.
*Since this was written, somebody said "Beetlejuice" three times, and dickface has sent in a handful more of hateful, racist, just asshole comments. So, I'm unlocking comments. But the days of anonymously posting are DONE. No name, no comments. Don't like it?
I'll tell you the same thing Rick told Cerebus:
Next Time: Oliver. (He didn't get a chance for "NOT IT" 'cause I'm nice like that...) And the return of the Rigamarole...
20 comments:
In the midst of all the rancor, I'd like to express my gratitude to Dave, TWP, the CiH? team, Madly Matt, and all the others involved with the Spawn #10 release.
This project allowed quite a number of people to be creative, giving them an opportunity that wouldn't have occurred without the catalyst of TWP. I find that their creativity as exemplified in the various covers is what appeals to me the most.
Steve
One small correction: it is inaccurate to say that Dagon has good commercial instincts because he has two of 50 lenticular covers left. It is more accurate to say that he has 102 of 150 left. He didn't almost sell out; he sold under one-third of his market estimate.
Re: Dave's Point 6: I suggest that another reason for Alan Moore's issue selling the best is that at the time he was far and away the most famous and critically acclaimed of the four guest-star writers. Neil Gaiman was still launching, Frank Miller was less attractive as a writer-only, and the fourth was some indie Canadian guy.
Brian W. will no doubt be pleased by the new comments policy.
-- Damian
Waverly Press needs to up their game a thousand-fold, or Sim/Cerebus fans will desert them. Dagon needs to start paying attention, if he actually gives a shit about keeping us. If not, well, as they say, good, whattayacallit, fucking luck.
Not half as much as living rent free in your head, Damian.
Matt, on behalf of Tony and myself, please thank Dave for sharing those anecdotes about Mr. Englehart here.
Speaking of rent: I will miss “A Fake Name.” Out all of the anons he or she was the coolest customer here.
Thank you, Matt and Dave. And, thank you, Dave for giving me a preview of this in my annual birthday call from you.
So exactly what did Waverly Press do to you Jeff S to get your panties in a twist? I've nothing but good dealings with them. I don't mind them selling extras via IndieGoGo or Cerebus Overload site as it gives us collectors a chance to get more or just get some of the goodies we might have missed otherwise. If I told me of a couple years ago that I'd have a chance to get all of this Cerebus related goodness - not just the remastered comics, but the little extras - I would start drooling and wouldn't stop until I got the items in my hands. And then I'd prolly droll some more as those items are pretty dang cool.
One correction to Dave's reply: The EC-style covers were originally only to be used for the Platinum Edition of SPAWN 10. I designed the header for each cover. After the Platinum Edition covers were done Benjamin took the black and white versions and colored three of them. Sean had already colored the "Hands" cover and distressed it as an experiment. Benjamin was not happy with the flat color versions so he distressed the front and backs including more distress to Sean's cover and everyone agreed they looked better that way. At this point Sean, Benjamin and I thought there were going to be 100-150 of each printed up as a bonus for us and Dave and no one else. At some point they were put up for sale. Neither Dave nor the rest of us, to my knowledge, knew they were going up for sale. When they did I could have predicted the backlash, but those aren't my comics and it isn't my Waverly Press so I tend to take a "buy them or don't buy them" attitude about it. Was there an excessive amount of covers? Probably. I doubt there will ever be this many covers of anything Aardvark-Vanaheim/The Waverly Press does in the future.
My point here is that Sean, Benjamin, Dagon and I passed around the covers and liked them and they got printed. Dave was not in on any of that and only found out after the covers were finished, perhaps after they were printed. His memory of telling me "Absolutely Not" is about Cerebus No 2 when I mentioned there was already discussion of giving the No 2 remaster the same EC treatment. He nixed it in a hurry. It wasn't about the sales or the controversy because it had not become a problem at that point. He just didn't want us to mess with his cover. There will be no EC-style Cerebus No 2 covers unless Dave changes his mind. Dave changing his mind once it is made up is a very rare thing.
I have no comment, I just have no idea if my name is actually listed. Probably have to do this again in a week or so.
Ha ha! Oh, Brian W., sometimes you can make me laugh. Thanks.
-- D.
Free rent IS free rent, Damian. The thanks I owe to you, my friend.
Margaret,
It's probably because Jeff hasn't gotten a personal phone call from Dagon.
Like the one he got when he whined to Dave about the Regency Edition...
Matt
No no, Brian W.! I'm not quite sure what you think you're accomplishing (and I suspect you don't either), but you're amusing me; hence the thanks. And may I compliment you by saying that the quality of your gibes has improved noticeably since you stopped trying to be original and simply imported Dave's rhetorical tactics and his very words. Dave is more an artist who writes than a writer who draws, but in his prime he was often quite funny.
PussPuss Birdsong is quite correct that, "Dave changing his mind once it is made up is a very rare thing." Not even being completely refuted and disproved can spur such a change! Like many people who call themselves conservatives these days (Dave isn't a conservative; he's a pre-Enlightenment reactionary), Dave doubles down when he's wrong and claims (as Neil Gaiman once said), "Of course, you proving me wrong only shows how right I am."
It is interesting to learn from Birdie, though, that Dave has abandoned his post as custodian of Cerebus (I guess he's spending all his Cerebus-related time on his "Museum of Me" and dreaming of posterity) and is letting other people make his decisions for him. I compared Dave to Jim Davis (pre-sale to Nickleodeon), but it now seems Dave is less involved with his creation than Davis was.
Margaret L.'s question has been asked and answered multiple times already.
I fear that Jeff S. will be proven wrong about fans deserting Waverly Press. The collector mentality (which, as I've said, looks a bit strange to me) will overwhelm any other consideration for the completists. They might bitch and moan, but they'll pony up the dough. I personally recall numerous incidents of collectors complaining that, say, Spider-Man hasn't been any good since Lee and Ditko, or that they don't even read it any more, but can't let the numbers on their shelves stop before the numbers on the periodical. And Cerebus collectors are an especially rabid subspecies.
Does anyone remember that episode of The Simpsons where Bart thought he had an animation cel, and Comic-Book Guy compared a real cel to "This is an arm." It's very funny to me that Dave, who once made fun of comics shops' naked avarice in selling "Piece of paper that say 'Star Trek' on them" now wants to sell his tracing-paper scribbles of Cerebus's medallions. And you can bet the Cerebus completists will snap 'em up! Pity Dave didn't save the garbage can of used Kleenex from the time he and Gene Day had colds together; he could have picked up a few more bucks.
-- Damian
My name came out your mouth, Damian . . . unprovoked. For a dude who claims to not give me any thought you most definitely do sweat my balls quite a bit.
That joke sound more original?
Now, I will address your accusation, Damian.
You called me by name because of the outcome of recent events here. This may come as a surprise to you, a complete dullard, but I take no pleasure in what has happened here.
Comments at the blog will be more secure because of Matt's decision to disallow anonymous commenters, but conversations here will more than likely become less lively, less open as a consequence. I think that's an end result that neither of us would have wanted, despite standing at opposite ends of the fandom here.
And yes, I have made it known here, in the past, that I took a dim view of anonymous commenters here. But, akin to what Dave said above, about the nature of this forum, I was out voted by multiple commenters here on that point.
Like an adult I accepted that democratic outcome. I even saw the errors of my ways; said as much here, to you. But, for whatever reason, you forgot about that inconvenient detail.
Damian, if you were an mature adult, instead of the anal retentive, absolutely petulant toddler you behave like here, you would have shown some class and not have mentioned me by name, you would have resisted the urge to assume that I took relish in what has occurred.
Shame on you.
Welcome to my world, Brian. I explain that Dave didn't see the distressed Spawn 10 covers until they were done and suddenly Dave has conceded all control of Cerebus to Dagon James, Sean Michael Robinson, Benjamin Hobbs and me (go ahead and throw in Matt, Margaret, Eddie, Carson and anyone else you can think of). You cannot reason with Damian Lloyd. He is a very good troll which is sort of like being the turd that stinks less than the rest of them. I've admitted to hot-headedness and being a potty mouth and giving in too many times and arguing with a person that no one on the planet will ever win an argument with. I'm a sucker for a troll because I like to be right, but you have to find the place where your brain tells you to stop banging it against your own skull. I'd like to say I'm done but I can't help but throw the poor sod a bone now and then because I think he must be lonely. I would say I feel sorry for him, but it's kind of like feeling sorry for a termite. It's a cute little critter but it will eat your house until it falls down if you let it.
Thank you David for the advice. Thanks for keeping it real.
The current AV team (you know who you are) are to be applauded for keeping the flame alive. Damian and I do not enjoy CIH?, but so what? I'm glad it's there and apparently selling well enough to keep going, month after month, even if I personally do not find it remotely amusing.
Tony,
Funnily enough, a chance to "start from the beginning" is coming with the Swords of Cerebus in Hell? collections.
Soon to be available in Hardcover...
Matt
(So you can have FANCY "crap" you don't find funny...)
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