Benjamin Hobbs:
I sent Dave this fax this week:
It should read "Page 2" and "Page 3". But doesn't because labeling diagrams is more difficult than it looks.
He replied with this:
So! Would you prefer:
Option 1: The current page layout.
Option 2: The pages rotated 180 degrees, placing the CIH? logo at the bottom of the page.
Option 3: The panels rotated 180 degrees, leaving the CIH? logo at the top of the page.
Let me know in the comments!
Next Week: Jeff's letter to PETA decrying "dead-aardvark-on-hound" abuse.
19 comments:
Option 1 ... but, critically, with 5 and 10 actually orientated as shown above. At the moment, the most irritating thing about the current layout for me is the need to keep rotating the damn thing to read these bit. 5 rotate 1234 rotate 10 rotate 6789 grr...
Ahem:
"So I'm on a computer that won't let me get a recaptcha thing, so would you be a dear, Matt, and post this comment for me on the right post? Thanks.
Travis Pelkie
Huh, somebody ( http://atomicjunkshop.com/cerebus-hell-comics-fans-heaven/ ) pointed out the issue with the layout in a review of Cerebus in Hell? 0 way back when he wasn't so lazy and got his stuff together more ;)
Considering that the logo is currently up top yet you read it last, reading order is already an issue. And you're already reading it unlike all other comic books in that the comic is turned sideways. I'm not sure what Dave is saying in his first paragraph -- as soon as you turn the page to the right orientation, you should keep reading in the right order. What the book currently does, as Benjamin points out, is that you're not reading top to bottom, but bottom then back up to the top. Which is asking people to read in an odd order.
So yeah, options 2 or 3 would be my choice. Probably lean towards option 3, actually, as it would put the logo and stinger gag at the end of the page."
No, Travis, I won't.
Matt
How about someone faxes Dave and asks him to clarify his involvement with Ethan Van Sciver and CyberFrog. Is he negotiating to appear on Van Sciver's YouTube show as Bleeding cool is reporting? Is he co-plotting and co-writing CyberFrog as Van Sciver is reporting? Does Dave know what comicsgate is? Is he lending material support to comicsgate? Tens of Dave Sim supporters want to know. At least one Dave Sim supporters is looking to unload all of his Cerebus swag and have his name struck from the petition if all of these answers are "yes".
Now, more comments about page layouts, please.
Michael Hunt
One Dave Sim fan ("supporter" would be too strong a word) wants to know what the h*ll a "CyberFrog" is.
Tony Dunlop,
CyberFrog is a terrible comic produced be a terrible human for the express purpose of picking the pockets of other terrible people by giving them what they want: terrible comics and attention.
For a less opinionated explanation of the intersection of CyberFrog, Sim, Van Sciver, and comicsgate I suggest using a search engine.
I'm less interested in explaining or debating the subject than I am finding out from Dave just what his involvement with these people and projects entails.
I am a "supporter" of Dave Sim, in that I have pledged money toward the Cerebus restoration project and as a Patreon supporter I am subsidizing the production of SDoAR, but also in that I have publicly supported both his work and his assertion that he is not a misogynist.
I think that should Sim be supporting either Van Sciver with CyberFrog or comicsgate itself then I would have to rethink my support of him, his work, and my defense of his character.
It's been a few days since Van Sciver made his announcement and Bleeding Cool published a fax purported to he from Dave, so I had expected to see on AMOC, if not answers to my questions, than at least an indication that AMOC had asked Dave these questions or questions similar by now.
Michael Hunt
Michael Hunt,
I sent up a fax after getting a copy of the fax Bleeding Cool ran. No response so far.
As the comicsgate guys have a tendency to hound their detractors, I've chosen to run Judenhass until Dave either gets back to me, or makes an announcement on the Weekly Update.
I'm also preparing either another fax, or a printout about fans'/supporter's response to the Bleeding Cool article. I'll include your thoughts.
Matt
(I'd ask "Why me?", but self pity comes later...)
Matt,
I actually thought, "Why him?" on your behalf. Heavy is the head who wears the pointy little hat.
I do appreciate your response.
Michael Hunt
Whoa! Looks like I inadvertently put a quarter in this guy. Yeah, "go google it" is exactly what I'm not interested enough to do...having not been a regular comic buyer/reader since Cerebus ended...which is why I asked here. OK, so this is a comic that evokes strong...dare I say, emotional...responses in some folks. Thanks for the info!
Meanwhile, back on topic - I haven't actually read any issues of CIH?, but to me only Option 3 makes any sense at all, in terms of the logical narrative flow of the strips.
Which option most closely resembles the layout of the Six Crises issues of High Society? That's the one I want for CIH?
I am also interested in Dave's direct answers to Michael Hunt's questions and will be glad to read Judenhass here for as long as that takes.
I would have preferred Option 3 from the start, and if a change is to be made would vote that one. However, given we're already riding that drowned horse (or something) I am not sure any change is really needed.
I am also interested in response around Michael Hunt's questions, and I'm in a very similar mindset as he is. I have no interest in supporting directly or indirectly those involved in comicsgate. I could drone on a bit about my thinking or position, but it really comes down to: if Dave is involved, I'm out of the Cerebus world (and will wish Dave best of fortunes in life and beyond).
Tony Dunlop,
I'm sorry to hear you inadvertently dropped your quarter in me. If you'll provide an address then I'll see to it that it is returned to you as soon as it passes.
Michael Hunt
Which option most closely resembles the layout of the Six Crises issues of High Society?
Option 3. (Well, except when the PM was drunk and the pages were twisting this way and that.)
Michael,
It is a heavy head that wears the pointy hat, but how else to show my status? And other than Google it, do you have any concrete evidence to show that "CyberFrog is a terrible comic produced be a terrible human for the express purpose of picking the pockets of other terrible people by giving them what they want: terrible comics and attention."? I'm not being a prick, I GENUINELY need to know. Anything CONCRETE I can show to Dave would help.
Other Michael, Michael and Bill,
I DO have a fax from Dave, it doesn't answer the central questions, but I'ma posting it anyway (see newest post).
Matt
So my idle curiosity got the better of me and I did a Bing search on "comics gate." A very cursory glance suggests these guys swim in roughly the same vermin-infested cesspool as the truly vile "Vox Day." Nasty.
Matt,
I did admit that my description of Van Sciver, his fans his comic, and his motives were just that: opinions. I stand by them and they are based in part in articles I have read, anecdotes of people who have been harrassed by comicsgaters in general and Van Sciver in particular, and Van Sciver's own words.
Here are a few links to articles you may wish to print and fax to Dave. The first is a few months old but is a good overview of the subject and provides much needed context. The rest document the harrasment that is my central objection to these folks, and some reactions of other comics creators.
http://capelesscrusader.org/comicsgate-calls-blacklist-progressive-creators/
https://www.polygon.com/comics/2018/8/29/17796422/comicsgate-online-harassment-darwyn-marsha-cooke-van-sciver
https://www.google.com/amp/www.vulture.com/amp/2018/08/comicsgate-a-comic-book-harassment-campaign-is-growing.html
https://amp.thedailybeast.com/comicsgate-how-an-anti-diversity-harassment-campaign-in-comics-got-uglyand-profitable
Upon rereading some of these I can see how some of the anti-femenist rhetoric there in might appeal to Dave. One wonders if these links provide enough context that the harrasment inherent in the movement becomes obvious to Dave.
I hope this helps.
Michael Hunt
Michael Hunt,
Yes, yes it does.
Matt
Option 3 makes the most sense of those offered. Sim's choice of format does exactly what he says other formats do, invites you to read out of order.
Not that I'd expect him to change it at this point, but I'd suggest a format more like this, which places all elements in their logical reading order, and allows more flexibility for the amount of text in "5" and "10" (maybe put the credits in the space below "in hell?"). The white space at the bottom isn't ideal, but if you're not married to the 6.5x10 trim size it could be cut, maybe printed at something like 8.5x8.5, which will preserve the size of the images.
Link to my proposed layout was https://ibb.co/d9KsLK
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