Hi, Everybody!
Comics Gate.
(What the "C" in AMOC doesn't stand for.)
So, the big question is: Is Dave working with Ethan Van Sciver? Short answer: As of right now, yes.
"But Matt, YOU were supposed to stop him!!!"
Yeah...not really my "deal".
I asked for proof that Mr. Van Sciver is "the man who killed my father, raped and murdered my sister... burned my ranch, shot my dog, and stole my Bible!"(Six points to anybody who gets that reference.)
This is what I got:
http://capelesscrusader.org/comicsgate-calls-blacklist-progressive-creators/
https://www.polygon.com/comics/2018/8/29/17796422/comicsgate-online-harassment-darwyn-marsha-cooke-van-sciver
https://www.thedailybeast.com/comicsgate-how-an-anti-diversity-harassment-campaign-in-comics-got-uglyand-profitable
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_justice_warrior
https://www.washingtonpost.com/outlook/2018/09/13/comicsgate-movement-isnt-defending-free-speech-its-suppressing-it/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.aeb8ebc49acd
http://boundingintocomics.com/2018/07/02/ethan-van-sciver-wants-to-kick-sjws-out-of-entertainment/
https://www.inverse.com/article/41132-comicsgate-explained-bigots-milkshake-marvel-dc-gamergate
Those are all pretty much, ComicsGate: "Nay"
For ComicsGate: "Yay", I got:
Full disclosure, I got about two minutes into the first video, and gave up. I don't know who was saying what. I didn't even try to watch the second one...
In this one, EVS describes what he thinks Comicsgate is. This is pretty consistent with what he's said elsewhere.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G5ycdqhjfJY
In this one, four of the regular contributers to the Comicsgate Live stream discuss Vox Day's attempt to trademark the name Comicsgate.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lBhqA-OHH_4
Then there was THIS, that I posted. I'm a FIRM believer in the adage that there are three sides to every story. Your side. Their side. And the truth. Well, here's EVS's side. (It's long. Looonnnnggg. Just warning you. Not disagreeing, or saying he's being disingenuous. Just saying it's a forty-five minute video.)
I also got this:
Which I'll get to tomorrow.
But basically:
 |
| Gee, who said this? |
Oh yeah, Comics Link. I got all the Auctions in one link, you're welcome.
Next Time: More. Of. This. Shit.
13 comments:
Matt. They're all talking about super-hero comics. You know, the stuff we all got over when we turned, I don't know, 18, or 24, or whatever it was. It doesn't matter.
They have Green Goober, and Wonderous Lady, and Rodent-Boy; we have Dave Sim, and R. Crumb, and Joe Sacco, and Spain, and Donna Barr, and Herge, and...
I wouldn't trade places for a second.
Tony,
I just started buying Amazing Spider-Man again.
I also get the Hulk and Savage Dragon.
And Saga, and East of West.
And it matters to some people.
Not me, but some people.
Matt
(Wanna hear Dave interview Russ Heath?)
I don't think EVS is a puppy raping hitlerphile any more than I think Dave is a misogynist. I don't believe all folks on comicsgate or comicshate sides are bad. My issue with comicsgate is the harassment they believe is proper (and I have equal issue with the counter-comicsgate folks). Disagree, certainly, but any form or stalking or bullying is not acceptable.
That EVS seems to just shrug off the comicsgate inappropriateness (well, shucks, we could rename but what's that point...we'll still be despised...), and has not (that I am aware) disavowed those doing that, made efforts to distance "his" comicsgate from the lunatic fringe, is my EVS problem. Not that I'm really worth the attention, but EVS stating "yeah, it's really scumbag slime sucking trolling behavior some of those comicsgate supporters have participated in, and does not reflect what I intend comicsgate to represent" goes a long way to me. Without that statement, I (rightly or wrongly) interpret that as EVS approves of that behavior. (and, frankly, I have the same position on Mark Waid or Jamal Igle...disavow the inappropriateness and I'll respect you and your position/argument, otherwise you're a hypocrite and slime).
So, without EVS disavowing the badness in comicsgate, I cannot see him as a decent fellow. And, I cannot support those who would choose to align/support anyone who believes hate against others is fine, and this would apply to EVS.
So, as for ole Bill Ritter...I expect I'll write Dave a note, mail it with my thoughts, watch how this unfolds...but if there is an EVS-Dave business relationship, there is no Ritter-Dave, erm, whatever this might be. A few things on that ending make me sad: I've enjoyed Dave's work since #26 came out on the stands, my wife gave me a 6.5 CGC Cerebus 1 for Christmas which I (if being true to myself) would need to give up, and I would need to also give up nearly 2 runs of #1-#300 and all peripheral books and a bunch of Dave related publications.
On the positive, Matt - classy as always. You're doing fabulous job; thank you for all the courtesy you've extended to all parties on AMOC.
"(Wanna hear Dave interview Russ Heath?)"
What is that, a rhetorical question? HELL YEAH. You better not be teasing...
Bill,
Wow. I agree word for word with that.
I will only add that all of us are on THIS site because of our love for Cerebus. I strongly suspect that there are those who can not separate a love of Cerebus from their love/admiration of/for Dave.
That is far from unusual when it comes to fans of many different types of artists or politicians.
Matt,
Thanks for posting the answer to my first question. I suppose it makes the answers to the latter two moot, in as far it guides my actions. But I can't help but still be curious.
I do look forward to watching how you deal with that meme. Remember the old saying, a MEME makes an ASS out of U and MEME, or something like that.
Again, you've handled all of this quite well.
Still Chill,
Michael Hunt
Damnit I meant Richard MEYER. Not sure if I should edit that original post. Apologies
What is Jewel of the Nile.
Eddie, I'd edit if you can...when I read that I thought, Whoa, Richard Spencer - actual, honest-to-goodness Nazi Richard Spencer - is involved in C-Gate? Man, it's worse than I thought.
(Let’s try that post again without typos or channelling that Seinfeld episode where George and Jerry take a limo ride and George gets mistaken for “O’Brien”...)
Hey Bill. While trying to find out more about comicsgate by searching twiitter (I read a modified Kurt Vonnegut quote somewhere that said something like “Future generations will look back on twitter as the lead in the water pipes that slowly drove the 21st century mad.” I’m pretty sure twitter is a demonically inspired force, like something straight out of "Good Omens." I mean, you’d think it obvious when users are defined in terms of “following” and having “followers” that it’s not going to be the most conducive platform for civilized discourse, and likely to turn into varying degrees of audience participation at a Jerry Springer show), I came across the following tweet from EVS on Sep 21 about the treatment of comics writer Magdalene Visaggio by Richard Meyer (one of the more prominent and outspoken figures of comicsgate. I could be wrong, but It seems like comicsgate partly evolved from exchanges between Meyer and Visaggio):
“His mistreatment of Mags, who is a good soul, is inexcusable. But I think he’s working on it. She may find peace & forgive him 20 years from now.”
Of course, this is tweet from 3 days ago. God knows how much has happened and changed since then in the Infernal Electronic Realms of Twitterland.
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