DAVE SIM:
To William C. of North Carolina:
To William C. of North Carolina:
Thanks for the fan letter. Answering your submission for Impossible Thing #16:
"It is normal for a woman to use sex toys to practically mutilate their sex organs and desensitize them to normal relations, but if a man so much as looks at a picture or in any way expresses a natural response to anyone except his 'partner', he is chided most severely and punished to excess, in the typical modern female hysterical way."
As to women's sex toys and masturbation per se. I think the point is more "What are you imagining?" rather than "What are you doing physically?" If you are imagining an illegal act -- pedophilia, underage sex, invitation to sexual touching, raping, being raped, incest, physical restraint, physical harm -- or an illicit act -- adultery and fornication of any kind -- I assume (perhaps incorrectly) that there are consequences to that. Ultimately, because God is omniscient and Judgement Day does exist. We'll find out on Judgement Day.
If ALL you are doing is stimulating your genitals to orgasm -- then, I think it's like any other "pleasure centres of the brain" vice. Don't overdo it to the point of addiction. Certainly don't do it to the extent that it's more important to you than your relationship with God.
Just substitute masturbation for alcohol and review any good "Are you an alcoholic?" questionnaire if you get worried about yourself. If you decide you have a problem, quit cold turkey. "I wish I was a person who could just do this once in a while, but I can't so I have to just stop. Period."
What I call The Cigarette Scale since quitting smoking cigarettes was the toughest one for me.
As to "looks at a picture". My opinion (which is at extreme variance from the society in which I live): the only person you can legitimately see naked is your spouse whom you have married in the sight of God (i.e. a Church, Synagogue or Mosque wedding) (I note the quotes you put around 'partner'). "Don't go there" is my personal rule of thumb.
Thanks, again, for your letter, William! Although I wouldn't put this on my list of Impossible Things, you're certainly welcome to put it on yours.
12 comments:
Apparently I wrote so much that I am over the allowable character count for a post, so I will break this into two posts.
Part the first:
Um...Wow. Just..wow.
Dave,
Your answer to William C.'s question was, as per usual, concise and considered and based on your religious convictions while being free of any proselytization. But you failed to answer his question as written or to address its disturbing tone and assumptions. It is certainly not your responsibility to address every comment thrown your way, but I think in this case you do yourself no favors by simply answering the question you inferred as opposed to answering the question asked, especially in a public forum. Please allow me to do so, if not on your behalf then on behalf of those of your fans and supporters that wish you would not let such comments and questions pass unopposed. So....
William C.,
First of all your question as written makes no sense. Combining the "Is it normal..." portion with "...but if..." portion in one sentence provides the listener with no logical way to answer yes or no or to elaborate any further in any meaningful way. Doubtless this is why dave ignored your question and instead answered one of his own devising. Also there was no question mark, but I am not the grammar police and any such official could likely cite me repeatedly for the missive I am currently typing, so better all around if we just set that aside.
Secondly, I think that what you are asking (and correct me if I'm wrong) is it right or fair for a woman to do both of the things you described. That question is difficult to answer due to the inclusion of several strange assumptions you have regarding female masturbation. Therefore I'd like to break up your question into what I see as its component parts and try to answer them individually.
1. It is normal for a woman to use sex toys to practically mutilate their sex organs and desensitize them to normal relations?
Setting aside the word "Normal" and its psychological and cultural connotations and your inclusion of the stipulation that women "use sex toys to practically mutilate their sex organs and desensitize them to normal relations", let's just look at the numbers and see how many women use sex toys. A quick google search gives us percentages ranging from 44% to 52.5% of women have used dildos and/or vibrators at some point in their life. So about half. As it turns out asking if its normal for women to use sex toys is like like asking if its normal for women to identify as conservative or liberal, Republican or Democrat, that is to say, yes, it's normal for women to use sex toys.
Part the second:
To address your (to me) disturbing assumption that women "use sex toys to practically mutilate their sex organs and desensitize them to normal relations" I am going to have to make some assumptions. Again, please correct me if I am wrong. I am going to give you the benefit of the doubt and suppose that your question was not based on any anecdotal experience you or an acquaintance of yours might have had in which a man was unable to satisfy (that is to say, bring to orgasm) a woman, or unable (shudder) to satisfy himself due to the possibly abnormal woman's penchant for using sex toys that "mutilate" her "sex organs" (here I am going to assume you mean the vagina and not the entirety of a woman's reproduction system as your stated concern is "desensitiz[ation]" and not with the health risks or reproductive problems one might assume could arise from such self-mutilation) thus "desensitiz[ing] them." I do so because to do otherwise would lead me to conclude that you are more than simply ignorant and in need of instruction, but that you are so monumentally narcissistic that no amount of instruction would suffice to educate you to the point that you would then quite correctly be embarrassed to have asked a question so riddled with strange assumptions in the first place and thus also lead to me think that this reply in itself was a waist of my time.
Women's vaginas expand (within reason) and contract so that accommodating the average-size or above average-size (again within reason) sex toy or penis is usually not a problem and can be accomplished without resulting in mutilation. To put it another way, vaginas are not like a turtle-neck sweater that your friend borrowed from you and stretched out the neck-hole with his big, throbbing, fat head and then returned to you so that when you put it on it slips over your head so easily you were no longer able to experience the pleasure of feeling the neck-hole sliding snugly over your doubtlessly pronounce brow until finally the sweater accepts your tiny pin-head.
It might also interest you to now that according the Consumer Product Safety Division of the U.S. government of the 343 individuals receiving E.R. treatment for sex-toy related injuries from 2005-2013, 58% were male and (I'll do the math for you) 48% were female.
2. ...but if a man so much as looks at a picture or in any way expresses a natural response to anyone except his 'partner', he is chided most severely and punished to excess, in the typical modern female hysterical way."
I think what you are asking is if it is fair or right for a women to masturbate and at the same time expect her male partner to abstain from masturbation. I think the answer to that is no. See "Sauces, Ganders and Geese."
If by "...natural response..." you mean arousal and/or erection and/or masturbation, then I think you might do well to examine why you think a male's response to a picture or anyone not his partner is natural while you question whether a woman's masturbatory practices with or without sex toys is "normal." Seriously, think about it. I think that question may well be at or at least near to the heart of why you made such an uninformed and disturbing statement inexpertly disguised as a question in the first place.
Part the third:
3. I'd like to address "...the typical modern female hysterical way."
Firstly, as to "typical," much like the masturbation numbers reported above, the percentage of modern women who use pornography is somewhere between 30-55% according to a sampling of surveys. That makes a women who uses pornography typical or normal. Your or mine or Dave's opinion on those fact notwithstanding, they are the facts.
Secondly, as to the "...female hysterical way," I think again you would be well served to ask yourself why your stated woman's reaction to your arousal and/or erection and or masturbation to pictures of someone other than her is anymore hysterical that your supposition that the same woman's masturbatory practices result in mutilation and are perhaps abnormal.
What you are really talking about is jealousy. Some people are more or less jealous than others. Setting aside religious convictions for a moment, some people can handle the fact that men and women can be aroused by things and people other than there partners. Jealousy stems from insecurity. And my friend, your poorly worded question is rife with your own insecurities.
--- Michael Hunt
Sorry, I meant three posts. Four counting this one.
-Michael Hunt
Thank you Michael for diving into this...my multiple readings of the #16 (and dear God, no...as #1-#15 are, agree with them or not, at least thoughtfully presented. My typical response has been "do I really need to keep coming to AMOC if what we're now delving into is sufficiently inaccurate or representative of extreme outlying occurrences..."?
William C, if he is in fact serious about this thinking, fails to reflect the normal (whilst seemingly proclaiming normality to his thought). As another observation (since Michael has sufficiently addressed the failings of the mutilation statement)...)
I'm certain that, in the vast majority of well-adjusted relationships, there is no chiding or (whatever this means) punishment. Maybe in crazy, maladjusted relationships built on jealousy or control issues...but in non-crazy ones...no, just no.
Impossible Thing #16? My answer: absolutely not.
Bill,
My first reaction upon reading something as ridiculous as what William C. wrote is to shake my head sadly and move on with my day. I did so in this case, but it kept gnawing at me.
While I think I did a competent job of pointing out the internal inconsistencies in what he wrote, I should have refrained from any personal attacks, no matter how tongue-in-cheek they were. I regret throwing a few barbs in William C.'s direction. That was unkind and unfair. I do apologise for that.
The conversations regarding gender issues that we have here are not just mental masturbation. I think they matter. On a larger scale they matter to us as a society. On a smaller scale it matters how they are conducted and in what context they are conducted, because a number of us would like to see Dave's work reach a larger audience, not just for Dave's benefit but also for that audience's benefit. I think it makes Dave seem foolish when he just lets something like this slide by and goes on to answer it as if it were a question that deserved a legitimate response without addressing its internal inconsistencies.
--- Michael Hunt
Dave Sim, the cartoonist men turn to for advice on masturbation!
This really is an odd little corner of the internet.
I try to be very specific about the fact that MY response is MY response based on the ethical position that I've arrived at.
It's very easy in a largely feminized, largely secularized society to get lured into someone else's premise and then have to argue with something that you disagree with for entirely different reasons than that person would even acknowledge as having merit. I think we -- that is, we as a society -- have to get past that and I don't think we are. We've been lured into the "one right way to think and everyone else needs to be expelled from society who doesn't think that way" premise.
Yes, Jim, it's an odd little corner of the internet because it's the only corner that isn't concerned with imposing ideological totalitarianism on everyone else and insulting them or expelling them if they don't think "the right way".
I think it's much better to be "odd" in the way we're being than to be "not odd" in the way everyone else is being.
William C outlined his premise, I outlined my premise, Michael Hunt outlined his premise and they're very different from each other.
"Isn't that interesting?" I think we need MORE "odd" environments where people's reactions are "Isn't that interesting?"
I have a massive 'to do' list today, though I feel this topic is worth addressing. As for "mutilating one's body" - as a woman, and an inexperienced one sexually (according to current statistics), I believe that could be possible, both for women and for men. Also, it is not all about vaginas. Although I have never used a sex toy, I understand there are those that focus on the clitoris. Hey, guys, please don't forget about the clitoris with your beloved. Personally, I can't imagine why sex toys are necessary in life at all. Also, I don't even use my hands - all I have to think about is my beloved who I am committed to in love and partnership in life, love, and all adventure. Yes, I am able to orgasm simply using my mind. Why, because the man I love most is on the other end of that mindset. And yes, he is my husband in most definitions of the term, and legally in many states across the USA. I agree, once again, with Dave. Use of other images other than whom God has connected is wrong - in my mind it is, anyway, and I do believe that was part of the point Dave was trying to get across. Is masturbation normal? I'd have to say yes. Does the very occasional use of masturbation infer that I'm missing out on something that my husband cannot provide me? Absolutely not. Do I care what God thinks of me, my sexual being and practices? Yes, absolutely. Now...the hysterical inference - well, I like Dave as Dave and it is an ancient theory regarding women's motivations and actions - one I would prefer to discuss between Dave, myself, and my beloved if I ever decided to get into that discussion at all. To put it bluntly, I don't think that Dave or my beloved think with their dicks. As well, I do not think with my uterus. 'nough said.
Jeez. Michael Zulli. No accounting for taste.
I'M KIDDING, KAREN! KIDDING!
(More than) a little too jocose on that last message.
What Karen is talking about is what we need in our civilization: men who ARE about their beloved the way women ARE about their beloved.
I'm NOT that. All I can do is try to repent and atone for my fornications and adulteries (and that's ALL they were: SINCERE apologies to every woman with whom I had any kind of intimate contact 1976 to 1998 -- had I read the Bible before 1996 none of them would have happened). At this moment, I have repented and atoned for my fornications back as far as October of 1979 (which I suspect is why Comic Art Metaphysics is hocking up the 1979 fur-ball in today's post).
Since I lost my virginity to Deni in December of 1976, that means (at least theoretically and chronologically) I will have repented and atoned FULLY for all of my fornications and adulteries, God willing, by August of 2019.
Karen? Tell Michael thanks for the phone message and tell him I will be giving him a call after Ramadan.
Now I'm staring down the barrel of a 48-hour fast since Monday is a 3:16 day!
Dear Dave,
I'm glad that you understood my message, Yes, Micheal has quite the woman on his hands here, though there is never doubt of my love and respect for him - and, thank God, it works both ways. We have been truly blessed.
Please do forgive my lack of discretion in stating how it is - I tend to do that, no holds barred. I see it as honesty - honest speak.
I hope that you are not overly down on yourself for past affairs of the heart and body. I have to believe that God would certainly forgive you if you have sincere remorse, which you obviously do. Please go easy on yourself. I chose my path of keeping my body primarily to myself due to my upbringing. I am So far from perfect. Sure, I can say that I've only had sex once outside of marriage, though the quiz is, and how many times have you married, Karen? ;) All blessings during Ramadan. Karen
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